Session Start: Sun Jul 15 09:25:11 2001
[09:25] *** Now talking in #movie
[09:29] *** Retrieving #movie info...
[09:30] *** Corinne changes topic to 'M: TM: Agenda: 0) *Waiting for people to turn up* 1) Membership 2) Budget 3) Status 4) Reports 5) AOB '
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[09:46] <05odaiwai> huh?
[09:46] <05Corinne> yes?
[09:46] <05odaiwai> i just got pulled in here?
[09:46] <05odaiwai> is that automatic?
[09:46] <05Corinne> erm...no
[09:47] <05Corinne> unless someone invited you
[09:47] <05odaiwai> so which movie?
[09:47] <05Corinne> maskerade, potentially.
[09:47] <05Corinne> we're having a meeting, soon.
[09:47] <05odaiwai> this for the ccde?
[09:48] <05Corinne> there will be auditions at ccde, it's highly unlikely to be filmed by then.
[09:48] * odaiwai very vaguely recalls seeing something on afpa
[09:48] <05Corinne> go see at http://afpmovie.orcon.net.nz if you want
[09:49] * odaiwai rummages around for netscape
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[09:51] <05Nanny_Ogg> Hi
[09:51] <05hippo> hi Sarah
[09:51] *** Corinne sets mode: +o Nanny_Ogg
[09:51] <05Corinne> hi sarah, have a good time on sunday?
[09:51] <05Tangawizi> hello everyone
[09:52] <05odaiwai> 'capacious knickers'? heh!
[09:52] <05Corinne> *smile*
[09:53] <05Nanny_Ogg> Had a great time, thanks, Corinne!
[09:54] <05Corinne> sarah: what actually happened?
[09:55] <05Nanny_Ogg> Well, people turned up, and Eric got us to walk round and do drama-type-stuff exercises, and then we took turns reading from a script he had (not the film itself).
[09:55] <05hippo> sounds very similar to Nottingham
[09:55] <05Corinne> what silly exercises did he make you do? :)
[09:56] <05Nanny_Ogg> And did exercises looking at bits of the script he had, and acting it out with the actors changing all the time, so that we could get used to getting into and out of character.
[09:56] <05Nanny_Ogg> We had to walk round in a way suggested by a word he thought of and a word someone else thought of for us, and communicate with other people using just those two words.
[09:56] <05Nanny_Ogg> And then have arguments together in groups using just those two words.
[09:57] <05Nanny_Ogg> Oh, yes, and he got us to think up new names for bits of the room.
[09:57] <05Corinne> using inflection, or did it actually have to make sense?
[09:57] <05Nanny_Ogg> Using inflection.
[09:57] <05Nanny_Ogg> Then, when we'd read through the script, we had to divide off into pairs and read it out without moving any other body parts.
[09:57] <05Corinne> did he test out singing at all, or only with people who said they could?
[09:58] <05Nanny_Ogg> He didn't test singing at all.  He specifically said he wasn't going to do that as he didn't know enough about singing.  Charissa was there and was ready to sing, but he said she should send tapes to whoever's going to be in charge of that (I forget now)
[09:58] <05Nanny_Ogg> She sang for us anyway, though, so we could hear what she's been doing in this opera ;-)
[09:58] <05Corinne> joy and stewart, nominally.
[09:59] <05Nanny_Ogg> That's probably it then.  I think he did mention Joy's name.
[09:59] <05hippo> ooh, I'm pleased Charissa made it : she obviously got my e-mail
[09:59] <05Nanny_Ogg> It was great to see her again.
[09:59] <05Corinne> though with her being in new zealand...
[09:59] <05Corinne> if eric wasn't so antagonistic to mole I'd use him for the singing auditions.
[09:59] <05Nanny_Ogg> I presume you mean Joy & not Charissa?  I didn't know she was in NZ.
[10:00] <05Corinne> I meant joy :)
[10:00] <05Nanny_Ogg> Which does potentially cause some problems.  ;-)
[10:02] * odaiwai is off
[10:02] <05odaiwai> byebye
[10:02] *** odaiwai has left #movie
[10:02] <05Nanny_Ogg> Um, that was quick.
[10:02] *** eric has joined #movie
[10:02] *** Corinne sets mode: +o eric
[10:02] <05Nanny_Ogg> Hiya!
[10:02] <05hippo> hi eric
[10:02] <05eric> hi all :)
[10:02] <05Corinne> well, I think we can start now
[10:03] *** Corinne changes topic to 'M: TM: Agenda: 1) *Membership* 2) Budget 3) Status 4) Reports 5) AOB '
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[10:03] <05Corinne> not sure if this is the right agenda, mind you :)
[10:03] <05hippo> hi susan
[10:03] <05lonecat> Hi
[10:03] *** Corinne sets mode: +o lonecat
[10:03] <05eric> sorry...was writing a rather convoluted afp post then noticed the time
[10:03] <05Corinne> it's only 3 minutes past :)
[10:04] <05eric> still late...specially since I got up at 8am to make sure I was here on time :(
[10:04] <05Corinne> aww :)
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[10:05] <05Corinne> anyway, the club is up and running, thanks to Nick, so lets give him a big round of applause, even though he isn't here.
[10:05] *** Corinne sets mode: +o Kincaid
[10:05] * eric applauds
[10:05] <05Kincaid> yo
[10:05] * Corinne applauds likewise
[10:06] * lonecat woohoos
[10:06] <05Tangawizi> *claps*
[10:06] <05Nanny_Ogg> <applause>
[10:06] <05Corinne> <g>
[10:06] <05eric> seen the t-shirts and they are good
[10:07] <05lonecat> ooh yes :-)
[10:07] <05lonecat> Plus coming in a 'one size fits all Cthulus' model
[10:07] <05Corinne> even better :)
[10:09] <05Corinne> right, now that we've got a place for people to write cheques too, we have to decide exactly what membership *means*.
[10:10] <05eric> membership means...the right to a t-shirt, an copy of the finished movie on dvd or video...
[10:10] <05Corinne> and how much are we charging?
[10:11] <05eric> ...and the right to call an emergency membership meeting to vote on replacing the cabal...
[10:11] <05eric> ...on January 2nd 2003
[10:11] <05hippo> <g>
[10:11] <05Corinne> <g>
[10:11] <05lonecat> I think £25 was discussed
[10:11] <05Nanny_Ogg> We can get movies on DVD??
[10:11] <05Corinne> for which, video or dvd?
[10:12] <05lonecat> Can't remember :-(
[10:12] <05Nanny_Ogg> The problem with that is that *selling* the video/DVD counts as merchandising and is a breach of copyright.  So whatever we do has to be phrased in terms of `You pay so much for membership, and it just happens that members get this free video'
[10:13] <05eric> yep...therefore video and dvd must be the same price
[10:13] <05Corinne> sarah: we know that.
[10:13] <05Nanny_Ogg> So I don't think you could charge more for the DVDs, as that would count as receiving money for them.
[10:13] <05Nanny_Ogg> Cool.
[10:13] <05eric> P&P could be charged for btw
[10:14] <05eric> ...though it might be better not to
[10:14] <05hippo> what about non-uk membership, that would increase P&P ?
[10:14] <05eric> ...gives a price discount for those people who were too geographically challenged to take part
[10:14] <05Corinne> erm...why should they be the same price? It's the members choice what they pay for...
[10:15] <05Corinne> plus we have the "any profit donated to charity of choice" opt out clause.
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[10:15] <05eric> for one thing it's far easier to simply charge one amount...
[10:16] <05eric> ...but also it's unuaual for a membership fee to be different amounts
[10:16] <05Corinne> why? we're going to have to keep incredibly detailed records anyhow...
[10:16] <05Corinne> no it isn't, you have different bands of membership.
[10:16] <05hippo> then stick to video ? and not worry about dvd
[10:16] <05Corinne> the deluxe package, the premium package, whatever.
[10:16] <05lonecat> It gives people the option to change their minds
[10:16] <05Nanny_Ogg> Corinne: The point is that if we charge two different amounts for membership, it would have to be phrased in such a way that it *doesn't* sound like `You pay more for the DVD'.
[10:16] <05eric> how much price difference is there likely to be?
[10:17] <05Corinne> 25 is too much, but less wouldn't cover the dvd costs.
[10:17] <05Corinne> what's wrong with paying more for the dvd? you would in the shops...
[10:18] <05eric> £25 is not too much...it's a sensible amount...especially if we suggest that wealthier people add an extra donation
[10:18] <05Nanny_Ogg> Because we aren't supposed to be charging directly for the DVD or tape at all
[10:18] <05Corinne> we can't have donations unless we are a charity.
[10:19] <05eric> Corinne...but that doesn't mean people can't pay more for their membership if they so wish]
[10:19] <05Corinne> we're not, they wil be paying for the privelege of having a dvd disc, with the extras that entails....behind the scenes, was suggested.
[10:20] <05Corinne> eric: people don't pay more for something they can get for less, it's just common sense.
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[10:20] <05Corinne> *no-one* has stepped out of the woodwork and offered money, why would they do so with membership?
[10:20] <05eric> I've been know to
[10:20] <05Kincaid> oops
[10:21] <05Corinne> eric, I hate to say this, but you are by no means representative.
[10:21] <05eric> :)
[10:21] <05Corinne> :)
[10:22] <05Nanny_Ogg> Corinne:  From the POV of copyright, I think we *have* to phrase it in a way that clearly differentiates between paying for a video/DVD and paying for membership.  Not saying this can't be done, just saying we'd probably better be careful to do it that way.
[10:22] <05eric> the reason people who can afford to might pay more is that they want to see a finished product...and paying more makes it more likely to happen
[10:22] <05Kincaid> I'm gonna drop off for ten mins, gotta recover some files
[10:23] <05Nanny_Ogg> See ya, Kincaid
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[10:23] <05eric> just as the reason I always round off the total I pay for books at the 2nd hand bookshop to the nearest £5 is that I don't want this one going bust like the last one did
[10:23] <05Corinne> stands to reason that if oyu pay more, you get more, and a dvd version *would* be more.
[10:24] <05eric> yep...but they are not paying for the copy of the movie...we aren't allowed to charge for the copy of the movie
[10:24] <05Corinne> the point is that we're a non-profit organisation
[10:25] <05Corinne> and we aren't charging them for the copy of the movie, they are paying us for a membership package.
[10:26] <05eric> what is the price difference between video and dvd?
[10:26] <05Nanny_Ogg> As long as it's phrased that way in the regs, that shouldn't be a problem (I hope - heaven knows I don't know much about copyright laws)
[10:27] <05Corinne> the copyright issues will be sorted out with pterry's lawyers when we have something to give them.
[10:28] <05Corinne> I really do *not* see how having two price brackets can comprimise copyright.
[10:29] <05Nanny_Ogg> I don't think it would, as long as it's phrased as price brackets *for membership*.  That's my point - we'll have to avoid any phrasing that sounds like `Pay more for the DVD'.
[10:29] <05Corinne> of course it is, why should it be anything else?
[10:29] <05Corinne> phrasing is not important right now, we just have to decide what we're going to charge, and what people are going to get.
[10:31] <05eric> my view is that we should start by charging £5+ more than the costs...and rasie the price after three months to £10+ more
[10:31] <05eric> to encourage money coming in early
[10:31] <05hippo> that sounds reasonable
[10:32] <05Nanny_Ogg> OK.
[10:32] <05eric> small amounts now would make a huge difference
[10:32] <05Corinne> we also need to find out about tax.
[10:32] <05eric> tax are the ones with the flat heads...
[10:32] <05eric> ...the round ones are nails?
[10:32] <05Corinne> yesyes
[10:33] <05eric> having spenta  few years being paid for doing it I now eschew accountancy in all it's forms :)
[10:34] <05Corinne> anyone remember nick's hometown?
[10:34] <05eric> ...especially its forms
[10:34] <05Nanny_Ogg> Eric - But do you eschew obfuscation?  ;-)
[10:34] <05lonecat> I should know this :-/
[10:34] <05hippo> corinne : down in Kent somewhere ?
[10:34] <05Nanny_Ogg> I know Sunderland came into it somewhere, but I think that's his Uni address
[10:35] <05Corinne> yes, I know that, I just wondered if anyone had the specifics so I can find out the right tax office
[10:35] <05eric> not so much eschew...more admire
[10:35] <05Corinne> does Ashford sound about right?
[10:35] <05Nanny_Ogg> Corinne - Does he mention it on his website at all?
[10:35] <05hippo> corinne : check the mailing list, seem to recall he posted details there
[10:36] <05eric> Corinne...Ashford is in the right sort of place
[10:37] <05hippo> brb discon
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[10:40] <05eric> hi falkor
[10:40] <05falkor> re
[10:41] <05Nanny_Ogg> Hi
[10:41] <05Corinne> hiya hippo
[10:41] <05Corinne> what's with all the name changes?
[10:41] *** Corinne sets mode: +o falkor
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[10:41] *** falkor is now known as hippo
[10:41] <05hippo> thats why :)
[10:42] <05Corinne> *sigh*
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[10:45] <05Kincaid> try that again
[10:46] <05Corinne> having problems?
[10:46] <05Kincaid> nah, just eat some files, then ran out of free RAM
[10:47] <05Kincaid> I miss anything important?
[10:47] <05Corinne> nothing at all :)
[10:48] <05Corinne> waiting for a dvd faq to load and say how much it costs
[10:49] <05Corinne> one that's very out of date says about 1000 quid for the master copy and about a pound to replicate.
[10:50] <05hippo> perhaps someone should e-mail David
[10:50] <05Kincaid> there was a whole load of companies on Googles directory, but I seem to have lost the fscking URRL
[10:52] <05Nanny_Ogg> If that's giving anything like a vaguely accurate estimate, is it going to be practicable to do DVD copies at all?
[10:52] <05Nanny_Ogg> I doubt if enough people are going to pay to leave us with a £1000 profit to spend on DVDs.
[10:52] <05Corinne> and another 10,000 to spend on the movie too, don't forget that.
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[10:53] *** Corinne sets mode: +o eelco
[10:53] *** Corinne sets mode: +o Kincaid
[10:53] <05eric> it won't cost that much, I'm sure of that
[10:53] <05eelco> 'morning (apologies for being late. Had a very tiring day yesterday)
[10:53] <05Corinne> then prove it
[10:53] <05eric> but even if it did that's just £2 if 500 people want DVDs
[10:54] <05eric> hi eelco
[10:54] <05Corinne> but we won't know if they *do* want dvds without a great deal of canvassing
[10:54] <05Nanny_Ogg> Eric - I'm not optimistic that you're going to find that many people wanting DVDs.
[10:54] <05hippo> may I suggest that e-mails are sent/searches are made and that by next week we have a definite go or no go with the dvd option
[10:54] <05Nanny_Ogg> That's also true, Corinne.
[10:55] <05Nanny_Ogg> Would we put any extras on a DVD?  That's the main reason many people go for them commercially.
[10:55] <05lonecat> And for Merkins
[10:55] <05Nanny_Ogg> Outtakes, films of the cabal (tinc) discussing production, etc.?
[10:55] <05Corinne> nanny: probably behind-the-scenes stuff.
[10:55] <05Corinne> discussing? we should be so lucky :)
[10:55] <05Corinne> but then shouting matches are much more entertaining.
[10:55] <05eric> if we don't have that many people wanting them then we don't need to get them run off commercially
[10:56] <05Nanny_Ogg> As long as it isn't a filmed version of strangling each other
[10:56] <05Corinne> eric: that was for *home studio*
[10:56] <05Nanny_Ogg> I don't think afp is quite ready to enter the world of snuff movies.  ;-)
[10:56] <05Corinne> a mac with the right equipment costs a grand.
[10:56] <05Corinne> sarah: you obviously haven't met some of the more disreputable characters then ;)
[10:57] * eelco notes that he prefers DVD over video anyway without any extra's or whatever. The image quality is just so much better.
[10:58] <05lonecat> I'd prefer DVD if I had a player :-(
[10:58] <05eric> Corinne...and David already has one...as have at least two other people I know of
[10:59] <05Nanny_Ogg> Eelco - Sure, but there may be people who _do_ decide on the basis of the extras.
[10:59] <05Corinne> most people just aren't that fussed, really.
[10:59] <05Corinne> and then there's the international compatibility issue
[11:00] * Kincaid thinks a behind the secnes view would be mostly IRC logs so far
[11:00] <05eelco> Corinne: which is better with DVD as well.
[11:00] <05eric> it may be easier to have them made up local for the US
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[11:00] <05eric> ...if we get a significant number of US members
[11:01] <05Corinne> *if* we have a market there
[11:01] <05Corinne> we need to find out what our market is, and if it even exists.
[11:01] <05Corinne> should have done that to start with, really.
[11:01] <05eelco> VHS is not campatible between Europe and US. DVD is. Just don't put a region code (you mean, people actually still buy players with region code??) on it and you are fine. 
[11:02] <05Corinne> if people weren't buying coded dvd players there wouldn't be all these problems.
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[11:03] <05Kincaid> most people who buy from $Electronicss_Barn wonn't understand region encoding
[11:03] <05eelco> Corinne: But is our case it really doesn't matter. You can make region-code less DVD's. (region code 0 that is IIRC)
[11:06] <05Corinne> just one percent of households *own* a dvd player.
[11:06] <05Corinne> it's really not efficient.
[11:06] <05Corinne> yes that will increase, but not enough in the timescale we have.
[11:08] <05eelco> Corinne: i really wouldn't worry about it. Your footage wiull be digitall anyway. If we decide we want a DVD, your only porblem is to get them cut. It is not something you have take into account during shooting.
[11:08] <05Corinne> you notice the topic? we're talking *membership* here, what we give to people, and whether it is feasible or not.
[11:10] <05eric> in fact it may be video that is more expensive to do a master copy for
[11:10] <05Corinne> so you're suggesting we just do DVD? complete madness, if you don't mind me saying.
[11:10] <05eelco> Which is exactly what I am saying: Ask them. Membership gets you the right to a copy. yes? So, if you are able to offer them DVD, do so.
[11:11] <05Corinne> ask *who*? we haven't *got* a market, only a mailing list with 50 people in it.
[11:12] <05Corinne> and half of them are sleepers.
[11:12] <05eelco> Ask the people on their membership form. Your only problem will be that DVD gets expensive in very low volumes. 
[11:13] <05Corinne> and statistically, it *will be* in low volumes.
[11:13] <05eric> brb
[11:14] <05Nanny_Ogg> How about we just tell people on the membership form that they will get a copy of the film in *some* form but we don't yet know if it'll be feasible to offer a choice between video and DVD, and could they please indicate which they would prefer given the choice?
[11:14] <05Corinne> which would necessitate charging the same price for both, should demand be high enough.
[11:14] <05eelco> Nanny_Ogg: Hexactly.
[11:15] <05hippo> I think that seems fine, but one single fee ?
[11:15] <05eelco> Why. Just put on the form that it might be slightly extra.
[11:15] <05Corinne> the point of membership is that we get money right away, not spend what we haven't got sending out surveys.
[11:16] <05eelco> Corrine: You fill in a membership form. You pay money. On the form you can indicate if you are willing to pay slightly more for a DVD. It is that simple.
[11:17] <05Corinne> what, so they send extra if we decide we'll print dvds? it just won't happen.
[11:17] <05Corinne> there needs to be a clear pricing policy.
[11:18] <05Corinne> mostly because we need a clear budget.
[11:19] <05hippo> three options 1) either video or dvd for all 2) offer the members a choice but for one fee 3) separate rates for each
[11:19] <05Corinne> personally I don't think we should even consider dvd, and find something else to put in the offer for a premium package.
[11:20] <05eelco> Corinne: Tell people that _if_ they want DVD, they get to hear the price later. That is _extra_ money, just to cover the cost of the DVD. Has nothing to do with your budget.
[11:20] <05hippo> I'm inclined to agree, despite the technical benefits
[11:20] <05eric> I think we need to know the likely costs in more detail...
[11:21] <05eelco> eric: For that you need the script. Without script, you don't know what you will need.
[11:21] <05eric> I know people who have distributed small scale stuff on video at £10 a copy...I know some who have done dvd...I need to find out how much they charged for it..
[11:22] <05eric> ...I've just assumed that since we will start out digital we don't need to remaster to make dvds so it won't be significantly more expensive that video
[11:22] <05eric> than
[11:22] <05Corinne> eelco: rubbish...the sets are transparent from the book, the costumes too, and the props are likely to be similar throughout.
[11:23] <05eelco> Corinne: Now you are talking rubbish. We are not filming the entire book now, are we? Just what moth putrs in the script.
[11:23] <05eric> anyway...mostly sets and costume budgets tend to be rough figures that you work to rather than a costed shopping list
[11:24] <05eric> you can't do a costed shopping list type of budget until you have a set design and a full set of costume designs...very dangerous to work that way...very expensive
[11:24] <05eric> ...so you tell the designers what you can afford
[11:24] <05Corinne> eelco: but we are filming the entire *span* of the book.
[11:24] <05eric> ...they then work to that
[11:25] <05Kincaid> yes, but do we, for exampl, need an underground lake?
[11:25] <05eric> ...for stage shows I usually give them a budget including their fee and leave them to it :)
[11:25] <05eelco> Corinne: yes we are. But that doesn;t mean you know the props by reading the book. You will only need the props for the parts that are being filmed.
[11:26] <05eric> we will only film the things we can afford...or in a way we can afford...it works both directions
[11:26] <05eelco> eric: which leaves us with all the other" costs. Shooting material. Maybe renting of locations.
[11:26] <05Corinne> eelco: we know what scenes are going to be used, the only problem is the addition of more, but they're aren't *likely* given the limited range of the book's locations, to be on different sets.
[11:27] <05eric> eelco...yep...transport is actually likely to be the real killer cost
[11:27] <05eric> I like the Laszlo Woodbine technique myself
[11:28] *** eric is now known as Laszlo
[11:28] <05Corinne> which means? exactly?
[11:28] <05Laszlo> I only work the four locations...
[11:28] * Kincaid wonders what he's been mixing with the woodbines...
[11:28] <05Laszlo> my office...a bar...a dark alley...and a rooftop
[11:28] *** Laszlo is now known as eric
[11:29] <05Corinne> scratch the bar, add the opera house, a printing office (double with buckets?) and a lancre hillside (with possible village), and you're all set.
[11:30] <05Corinne> ok, some locations may end up superfluous, but why can't we do the work to cost them first and scratch them if we don't need them, in the absence of a script?
[11:30] <05eric> opera house has only one difficult set...the underground bit
[11:31] <05Corinne> if any of you want this to work, then it'd be better to do more than necessary instead of sink into apathy and complacency by virtue of lack of script?
[11:31] <05eric> ...if we can sort dates that fit then full access to an old MAnor House for a couple of weekends will take out some other likely expensive locations...
[11:31] <05Corinne> I'm sorry for being preachy, but none of this is getting us anywhere.
[11:31] <05eric> theatres won't be expensive
[11:31] <05Kincaid> that the one suggested at the Notts audition?
[11:32] <05hippo> corinne : I agree
[11:32] <05eric> script is partially irrelevant anyway...if it's going to be detailed it can't happen until after you have the designs...
[11:32] <05Corinne> eric: I just said that.
[11:32] <05eric> ...nobody works that way...you start witha  rough budget based on what you think you can raise
[11:33] <05eric> ...ergo...the questin is...HMMHYG
[11:33] <05Corinne> thinking does not require a budget. going through the book, does not require a budget, drawing things does not require a budget.
[11:33] <05Corinne> but they all lead to the possibility of having one.
[11:34] <05eric> yep Kincaid...the one mentioned at the Nott'm audition
[11:35] <05Corinne> eric, you're supposed to be the director, so tell us what's going on, what you need, what other people need to do, without being so deliberately obscure.  It might be your way but it's not what a voluntary society needs.
[11:36] <05eric> I need...at least moderately reasonable looking costume for around 50 people (then we can do a certain amount of panning over crowds)...around 8/9 GOOD costumes...
[11:37] <05eric> I need access to a theatre stage with flying gear...
[11:37] <05eric> I need some places we can film where the buildings are old but fairly clean...
[11:37] <05eric> I need a couple of bland interiors that are posh and old...
[11:37] <05Corinne> "some places" "reasonable" "good" "posh" "old", be more specific. please.
[11:38] <05eric> an interior that is old cottagey or two
[11:38] <05Corinne> *details*
[11:39] <05eric> what sort of details?...I'm preperaed to have the period change slightly if it's a free location...
[11:40] <05eric> I don't want to specify too much detail on costume unless I've had time conferring about said detail with Susan
[11:40] <05lonecat> My plan is borrow as much as possible
[11:41] <05Corinne> then confer with susan, then susan should give *us* the results.  I know you're busy, but a catalogue doesn't have to be complete to be put up, witness the site as it is.
[11:41] <05eric> ...assuming Simon will still have access to the theatre in Durham I want to film at least some of the onstage stuf there
[11:42] <05Corinne> what does "average shoot needing 5 people paid for = £3,000
[11:42] <05eric> ...IIRC when I did a draft budget I said around £1000 for set props and costume...I think that is achievable
[11:42] <05Corinne> " mean in your budget?
[11:42] <05Corinne> then *prove* it's acheivable...where are the quotes from costume retailers?
[11:46] <05Corinne> the tshirts will cost £5000 to print. we need to have raised that much to even provide the members with half of what they order.
[11:46] <05Corinne> 200 members, just for the tshirts.
[11:47] <05eelco> 5000 pound. That is 600 t-shirts, right?
[11:47] <05Corinne> no, thats 1000.
[11:48] <05lonecat> I thought t-shirts were being done on demand
[11:48] <05Corinne> tshirts are integral to the membership package.
[11:48] <05Corinne> if we let people request sizes, it'll cost even more.
[11:48] <05hippo> suggests a membership fee ~ 20 - 25 ukp then
[11:48] <05Corinne> hippo: that was at 25 a member.
[11:48] <05eric> the t-shirts cost £X to make...until we have the member we have no expense...that's why film costs and membership costs have to be in pretty much separate budgets
[11:49] <05Corinne> £5 each, pretty much minimum.
[11:49] <05eric> ...so the relevat thing with a t-shirt is that it takes up around £7 of the cost of membership
[11:50] <05Corinne> what I'm saying is that we'll need upwards of two hundred members to even *start* getting useable capital for the film.
[11:51] <05lonecat> We don't need to make more t-shirts than we have members though?
[11:51] <05eric> ...we aren't going to get a sudden instant flood of 1000 applications for membership...so they'll need to be dealt with individually...
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[11:52] <05Corinne> which increases the price of production as we can't do bulk orders.
[11:52] <05lonecat> If they're individually numbered we can't do that anyway
[11:52] <05Corinne> yes we can, I had a quote, £4.75 plus tax each.
[11:52] <05eric> that makes the t-shirt component of the cost of a membership higher...but it means we'll not have several hundred people moaning that they sent off for it 3 months ago and haven't got their t-shirt yet
[11:52] <05Corinne> but nick's looking after that.
[11:53] <05Corinne> nope, we can't send out the membership package in bits.
[11:53] <05hippo> ok, I know we can't *market* as such, but how do we publicise this ? afp ? ccde ? convention chronicle ?
[11:53] <05Corinne> we'll have to put out the proviso that they get the stuff when the video is ready.
[11:55] <05Corinne> otherwise we'll have *nothing* to use for filming.
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[11:55] <05eric> why?...the t-shirts are being printed by a company that will send them out as part of teh cost...it'll be better to use their bulk discount of delivery than have them sitting around...
[11:56] <05eric> ...getting people wearing them to signings is good marketing
[11:56] <05Corinne> but you just said we can't print them in bulk
[11:56] <05Corinne> so no bulk delivery
[11:56] <05hippo> eric : next signing tour is November, a little late I would have thought
[11:57] <05eric> no...the printing company have a bulk deal for mailing...not us...it's for everything they print and send out
[11:57] <05Corinne> but they *won't* be mailing in bulk. they'll be mailing individually, unless they count everything on one account, no matter what the time space, as bulk.
[11:57] <05eric> hippo...next Pterry signing...but there are other authors that Pterry fans fead...there are other events
[11:58] <05lonecat> Neil Gaiman now has a t-shirt
[11:58] <05eric> that's exactly it Corinne...everything they send out goes on a single company account
[11:58] <05eric> ...it's likely to be a better deal than we can manage
[11:58] * hippo has promised himself a decent meal out today, and possibly a second Shrek viewing
[11:59] <05hippo> so if you'll excuse me
[11:59] <05Nanny_Ogg> See ya, hippo!
[11:59] <05eric> bye Mark
[11:59] <05hippo> bye for now
[11:59] *** Corinne is now known as thom
[11:59] *** thom is on IRC
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[12:00] <05lonecat> re
[12:00] <05thom> still on point one? tut, tut.
[12:01] <05eric> :(
[12:01] *** Ali has joined #movie
[12:01] <05Ali> hi all
[12:01] <05Ali> apologies for extreme lateness - got caught on the phone with my sister
[12:01] <05eric> hi Ali
[12:02] <05Ali> where are you up to?
[12:02] <05eric> for those with broad band or free internet calls...
[12:02] <05eric> http://www.toshforrester.com/Chaperones/GoingMadBeingGod.htm
[12:02] <05eric> which kind of fits the mood
[12:04] *** Disconnected
[12:08] *** Attempting to rejoin...
[12:08] *** rachel is on IRC
[12:08] *** thom is on IRC
[12:08] *** Rejoined channel #movie
[12:08] *** Topic is 'M: TM: Agenda: 1) *Membership* 2) Budget 3) Status 4) Reports 5) AOB '
[12:08] *** Set by Corinne on Sun Jul 15 10:06:24
[12:08] <05Ali> re thom
[12:08] <05thom> re
[12:08] <05eelco> re thom
[12:09] <05thom> okay, so anything further decided on the hardy perennial #movie agenda point, or shall we just forget the whole sordid affair and move to... er <notices next poinT>.. oh, sh..
[12:10] <05Ali> eh?
[12:10] <05thom> i mean, have we sorted out membership?
[12:11] <05eric> we need to know the costs of making copies on dvd and video so that we can set membership prices sensibly...something that really ought to be done at a meeting with both Nick and David present
[12:11] <05eric> even if it is done separate from a normal production meeting
[12:12] <05thom> or, indeed, anyone who knows the cost of such things. okay, fine. so we can't make that decision today.
[12:12] <05eric> yep
[12:12] <05Ali> and postage....
[12:12] *** Retrieving #movie info...
[12:12] <05eric> postage has to be guesswork...
[12:13] <05eric> since wew don't know where the members ive yet
[12:13] <05eric> live
[12:13] *** thom changes topic to 'M: TM: Agenda: [1) Membership] 2)* Budget* 3) Status 4) Reports 5) AOB '
[12:13] <05thom> with any luck it'll be fairly nominal. now, is this budget: raising, or budget: assessing?
[12:13] <05Ali> yeah, but you'll need to allow a reasonable amount for it as there'll be at least 2 mailings
[12:15] <05eelco> mailing costs are simple: get price estimate: explain to everyone from "abroad" that they will have to pay a bit extra (and how much extra) for shipping. Listen, people paying 25 quid do this to support the movie, not because they want best value for money. 
[12:16] <05eric> yep
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[12:22] <05Ali> so what is the position with the budget?
[12:22] <05thom> we don't have one.
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[12:22] <05eric> I've done a roughed out production budget
[12:22] <05eric> but very much broad brush until I know a little more about how feasible the amount is
[12:22] <05thom> you know, if i didn't know i'd be refused staright off, i'd get a loan to jump-start this movie. 5000, probably. but i have the worst credit rating it's possible to have, sorry.
[12:23] <05eric> it would be better if it doesn't come too much from a single source
[12:23] <05Ali> eric: any chance of putting it on the website?
[12:24] <05eric> Ali...basically £9,800 plus legal costs...
[12:24] <05eric> £3,000 transport
[12:24] <05eric> £2000 admin
[12:24] <05eric> £1000 set,props,costume
[12:25] <05eric> £800 insurance
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[12:25] <05eric> £1000 stock
[12:25] <05eric> £2000 equipment and hires
[12:25] <05Ali> stock?
[12:26] <05eric> stuff to actually record the thing on
[12:26] <05eric> it's stock for film...I assume the same word is used for digital
[12:28] <05eric> transport is assuming an average of £30 to get people to locations...assuming 5 people need to be paid for on average...and assuming we film for 20 sessions
[12:29] <05eric> admin is double what I'd budget for an 8 week medium scale theatre tour
[12:29] <05eric> ...this will go on longer but won't need anywhere near the same amount of posting stuff out
[12:30] <05eric> equipment and hires gives us £100 to spend on extra kit per session
[12:32] <05eric> which is extremely tight...but just about feasible
[12:32] <05eric> the admin budget is high...the set/props/costume budget is low
[12:33] <05thom> sorry.. extra kit?
[12:33] <05eric> the hires budget is a gamble...at the moment I'm assuming we won't get stung for serious location fees
[12:33] <05eric> thom...mics etc
[12:33] <05eric> ...extra lights
[12:34] <05thom> stuff we don't have *at base*, as it were, right?
[12:34] <05eric> ...stuff I don't know about but the cinematographer will say is essential
[12:34] <05eric> yep
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[12:35] <05Ali> re Kincaid
[12:35] *** Kincaid has quit IRC (LIRC. With Random Quit Messages.)
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[12:37] <05Kincaid> grrrr
[12:39] * thom looks at the topic... are 3 and 4 the same item?
[12:40] <05eric> prolly
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[12:42] * thom looks around nervously for kincaid2..
[12:43] <05Kincaid1> heh
[12:43] <05Kincaid1> with luck I might stay on this time
[12:43] *** Kincaid1 is now known as Kincaid
[12:44] <05eric> anything more on budget
[12:44] <05eric> ?
[12:44] <05thom> well, at least we have a bank account now to go overdrawn with :)
[12:44] <05eric> going
[12:45] <05eric> going
[12:45] <05eric> sold to the status report on the left...next item
[12:46] *** thom changes topic to 'M: TM: Agenda: [1) Membership 2) Budget] 3)* Status Reports* 5) AOB '
[12:46] <05eric> item 4) black helicopters
[12:47] <05thom> there is no point 4
[12:47] <05eric> there was an audition in London...
[12:48] <05eric> people were there...
[12:48] <05thom> there never was?
[12:48] <05thom> bloody hell.
[12:48] <05Ali> it was fun
[12:48] <05eric> most of them were very good
[12:48] <05lonecat> I drew more Mr Men
[12:48] <05Ali> BarryV took photos, Thomas made video
[12:48] <05thom> thank you for the relevance, susan. your point is noted.
[12:49] <05Ali> so you'll need to nag those two if you want to see them I think
[12:49] <05thom> figures.
[12:49] <05eric> thom...we should do Mr Mens for the production stills :)
[12:49] * Ali prods Nanny_Ogg
[12:49] <05thom> *blank look*
[12:50] <05Ali> Sarah, has Barry got those pictures developed yet?
[12:50] <05Nanny_Ogg> They're digital camera photos - apparently he can download them directly to the computer.
[12:50] <05Nanny_Ogg> Who wants them e-mailed to where?
[12:50] <05Ali> oooh
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[12:50] <05thom> sarah: scary@mostly.com, if you please.
[12:50] *** Thomas is on IRC
[12:50] <05Nanny_Ogg> Oh, and he did a few cute little movie sequences lasting for a few seconds each. ;-)
[12:51] <05Nanny_Ogg> Thom: So noted.  
[12:51] <05thom> maybe not the movies, though.. 's only a 56k connection.. :)
[12:51] <05Nanny_Ogg> I'm going to have to disappear from here exceedingly soon, like in the next couple of minutes.  Any other queries for me before I go?
[12:52] <05Nanny_Ogg> I don't know how long they'd take to e-mail - they're really just moving sequences lasting a few seconds
[12:52] <05eric> who is your agent? :)
[12:53] <05Nanny_Ogg> Agent?  I wish I had Agent. :-(
[12:53] * Nanny_Ogg places hideous curses upon AOL
[12:53] <05eric> ooh...can we all curse AOL?
[12:53] <05Nanny_Ogg> Please do.
[12:54] <05Ali> I thought that was taken as read
[12:54] <05eric> consider it done
[12:54] <05Nanny_Ogg> Unfortunately I _really_ can't stay for it.  Have to go now.
[12:54] <05Nanny_Ogg> Take care, everyone!
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[12:55] *** Sense|mee is now known as mike
[12:55] <05mike> hey
[12:55] <05thom> hi mike.. scared me for a bit there
[12:56] <05mike> sorry about that :) i'm on a friend's pc
[12:58] <05thom> okay... so status reports? anybody...?
[12:58] <05eric> memememe
[12:59] <05eric> I'm knackered after last weekend...
[12:59] <05eric> I've laredy paid Elton my CCDE fiver...
[12:59] * thom gives eric a lucozade tablet and tells him to sit down again.
[12:59] <05eric> and I guess that's about it
[13:00] <05Ali> is there going to be any film related stuff happening at CCDE?
[13:00] <05thom> i was saving that for aob :)
[13:00] <05Ali> 'k
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[13:00] <05lonecat> re
[13:00] <05Ali> re Susan
[13:00] <05thom> but... seing as aob is practically upon us, we can discuss it now.
[13:01] <05Ali> are we allowed to mention the s-word yet?
[13:01] <05eric> s?
[13:02] <05eric> sleeping-bag?
[13:02] <05eric> sausages?
[13:02] <05thom> sure, i've moved my pooter upstairs to work on it undistracted.
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[13:02] <05eric> stand-pipes?
[13:02] <05thom> and have done one scene since doing so. but it was only friday, so that's not too bad.
[13:02] * lonecat suffocates eric
[13:03] <05eric> mmmphhhh
[13:03] *** eric is now known as ex-eric
[13:04] * thom takes eric back to the shop, incurring a 20p fine as he does so.
[13:04] <05ex-eric> never argue with the costume designer...
[13:04] <05lonecat> ahem...  Designer?
[13:04] <05ex-eric> otherwise there could so easily be compelling reasons why you must wear a pink tutu for your next role
[13:04] <05thom> wardrobe mistress, i believe is her actual title, eric..
[13:05] <05ex-eric> oops
[13:06] *** ex-eric is now known as very_ex-e
[13:06] *** very_ex-e is now known as eric
[13:06] * thom shakes his fist at thomas.. he was on bloody #afp! cheeky scamp.
[13:06] <05lonecat> Thankyou, I think last night's depression has just broken :-)
[13:06] <05Ali> and now he's gone
[13:07] <05eric> so...CCDE
[13:07] <05thom> yes, right, ccde.
[13:07] <05thom> we want a programme of events, to inform elton of, because it's, like, two weeks away.
[13:08] <05thom> and if i was elton, i'd want to bloody well know yesterday.
[13:08] <05eric> OK
[13:08] <05eric> 3 hour slot for workshop audition...
[13:08] *** Martin is on IRC
[13:09] <05eric> and I have somebody who will be able to be there for one day (probably the Sunday) who can lead a good voice workshop
[13:09] <05lonecat> cool
[13:09] <05lonecat> any chance of stage fighting?
[13:09] <05eric> ...unforunately I haven't got anyone who can run a workshop on Saturday apart from me
[13:10] <05eric> SJ isn't around for that weekend
[13:10] <05Ali> eric: I think it'd have to be early on if it's goin g to be Sat or Sun
[13:10] <05thom> well, we only have friday night allocated to us, anyway.
[13:10] <05eric> Ali...I assumed fairly early on
[13:10] <05eric> Friday night :(
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[13:10] <05eric> we only need some open space
[13:11] <05Ali> unless it rains....
[13:11] <05eric> I'm quite happy to run an audition in the open in the rain :)
[13:11] <05thom> what's wrong with friday night?
[13:11] <05eric> nothing wrong with Friday night for an audition
[13:11] <05Ali> eric: maybe, but you won't get many takers
[13:12] <05eric> Ali...lightweights
[13:12] <05eric> the important thing is it needs at least 2 hours preferably three
[13:12] <05eric> and I can cope with up to 30 people in that time
[13:13] <05thom> from elton's email:
[13:13] <05thom> Friday night is better, if you could do something in the evening. We may
[13:13] <05thom> be able to find an additional slot on Saturday, but it would be great if
[13:13] <05thom> there was something going on on the Friday - even just a short 'sketch'
[13:14] <05thom> dinner... eep
[13:14] *** thom has left IRC
[13:14] *** thom is now known as thom_food
[13:14] <05Ali> if you are going to do Friday, early evening's probably best
[13:15] <05eric> I better explain the audition
[13:16] <05eric> the first 15-20 minutes are group stuff to break the ice and get people into the right sort of head space...
[13:17] <05Ali> eric: I know, I was there...
[13:17] <05eric> the next 30-40 minutes are group stuff looking at one or two very specific aspects of acting and of taking direction...
[13:17] <05eric> Ali...thom wasn't...and he's communicating with Elton
[13:17] <05Ali> oh right :)
[13:18] <05eric> ...then the rest is working in smaller groups, mostly pairs actually using a script
[13:19] <05eric> hopefully everyone ends up with one or two ideas that they can use to help develop characters
[13:20] *** Martin has left IRC
[13:20] <05eric> I've tried to pitch it so that it's useful for proto-professionals, am drammers, and RPG ers
[13:21] <05eric> ...and hopefully so that most of the way through they have entirely forgotten that they are auditioning
[13:22] <05thom_food> how do we expand our remit to provide "entertainment" as our payment for placement in the ccde schedule?
[13:22] <05lonecat> It worked for me :-)
[13:22] <05eric> thom...a reading from selections from the screenplay
[13:23] <05thom_food> hmmm... excitement?
[13:23] <05eric> I could also run a sketch type comedy improv workshop
[13:24] <05Ali> thom: it was good fun
[13:24] <05eric> ...haven't done it for a while...
[13:24] <05thom_food> ali: yes, but for crowd involvement, y'see?
[13:24] <05eric> and it wouldn't be fair to use it as the basis of casting decisions...
[13:24] *** thom_food is now known as thom
[13:24] *** thom is on IRC
[13:24] <05eric> since we aren't improvising the script
[13:24] <05thom> kinda like the "whose disc..?" thing last year, yesno?
[13:25] <05eric> ...but I reckon that could be worth a laugh or ten
[13:25] <05eric> I didn't see the whose disc thing
[13:25] <05lonecat> It was funny
[13:25] <05thom> well, whose line is it anyway put through an afpish mincer
[13:25] <05eric> I'd much rather do something that involves everyone rather than performers and audience
[13:25] <05thom> it was funny if a)you could hear it and b)you were an afper
[13:26] <05eric> ...some sort of improv tag...so that audience members can butt in when they are bored
[13:27] <05eric> ...I was assuming we'd be included more as a workshop activity that people can take part in if they wish
[13:28] <05thom> mmhhmm. i expect people'd be more willing to "direct" from the audience than actually perform. ie. shout stuff out.
[13:28] <05eric> can mix that in too
[13:29] <05eric> ...might be best to start with a group activity sort of thing...easy stuff to do so that people are performing before they realise they are
[13:29] <05eelco> eric: sounds like a good idea.
[13:30] <05eric> if it's fairly early on Friday evening it shouldn't be too many people
[13:31] <05thom> i know we'll be arriving  around 5 o'clock :(
[13:31] <05eric> ...if I can get 40 Italian 16 year olds to do improv in English for an hour and make a local TV crew wet themselves laughing, I ought to be able to get som Prtachett fans to be funny
[13:31] <05thom> but we want to get as many people as possible.. after all, this is *publicity*! woo!
[13:32] <05Ali> thom: whilst still flying under the radar
[13:32] <05thom> ach, we can fly as high as we like at ccde.. it's a fan event!
[13:32] <05eric> by definition everything at CCDEis under the radar...it's all existing fans
[13:33] <05lonecat> food^Wparent calls
[13:34] <05lonecat> Bye *hugs*
[13:34] * eelco has to go as well. See you all.
[13:34] <05eric> bye Susan
[13:34] <05thom> what would be good is if we can get joy's version of "illo porcupino.." in time to throw together some kind of performance of that.
[13:34] <05Ali> bye you two
[13:34] * eelco waves
[13:34] *** eelco has quit IRC (Quit)
[13:34] <05thom> eep, only one op left.
[13:34] *** lonecat has quit IRC (Everything you know is wrong)
[13:35] <05eric> and an op who doesn't know how to make other people into ops
[13:35] *** eric sets mode: +o thom
[13:35] *** thom sets mode: +o Ali
[13:35] *** thom sets mode: +o Kincaid
[13:35] <05Ali> ta
[13:36] <05eric> pure guesswork
[13:36] <05eric> OK...so...
[13:37] <05eric> I think arranging any sort of proper performance isn't worth the risk...
[13:37] <05eric> it sets our stall out without giving us time to prepare...
[13:37] <05thom> agreed, it's a bit late for that now.
[13:37] <05eric> we are better off doing something workshoppy
[13:38] <05eric> the question is what?
[13:39] <05eric> can we come back to this later today?
[13:39] <05thom> later today?
[13:39] <05eric> I want to make a couple of phone calls
[13:39] <05thom> m'kay, are you going to be on this evening?
[13:39] <05eric> ...see who might be up for doing something Friday night
[13:39] <05eric> set a time thom...I'll be there
[13:40] <05thom> well, we don't get back on until 9pm
[13:40] <05eric> OK...10pm
[13:40] <05thom> fine, this channel, 10pm.
[13:40] <05thom> ali? kincaid?
[13:40] <05eric> done
[13:40] <05Ali> thom?
[13:41] <05eric> I need to eat now...and then do some fast thinking and phoning
[13:41] <05thom> wanna be on the subcommittee? :)
[13:41] <05Ali> *grin*
[13:41] <05eric> email Nick
[13:41] <05Ali> ok
[13:41] <05thom> he's not back 'til monday, i think.
[13:42] <05eric> damn...because whatever we do it's likely to be fishtank territory
[13:42] <05Ali> and get hold of Thomas if you can, to arrange video camera availability if necessaryu
[13:42] <05thom> will do.
[13:42] <05Kincaid> I'll prolly be o  tonight
[13:42] <05eric> anything we do that has a performance element CAN'T be an actual audition
[13:42] <05thom> no, absolutely.
[13:43] <05eric> anyway...a doppo raggazzi
[13:43] *** eric has quit IRC (Leaving)
[13:43] <05thom> hmm.
[13:43] <05Ali> thom?
[13:44] <05thom> anything you want to bring up, anything at all?
[13:44] <05Kincaid> nope
[13:44] <05Ali> nah. shall we call it a day for now?
[13:44] <05thom> or shall we just adjourn till this evening?
[13:44] <05thom> yep.
[13:44] <05thom> kincaid, you coming back for this evening?
[13:44] <05Kincaid> ok, lunchtime
[13:44] <05Ali> ok, see you tonigh then
[13:44] <05Kincaid> yup
[13:45] <05thom> till tonight, then, people, adieu
[13:45] *** Kincaid has left #movie
[13:45] <05Ali> byeeeeeee
[13:45] *** Ali has left #movie
[13:45] *** Disconnected
Session Close: Sun Jul 15 13:45:26 2001