Session Start: Sun Jul 29 10:06:23 2001 [10:06] *** Now talking in #movie [10:06] *** Topic is 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: 1) status reports 2) CCDE 3) budget 4) memberships 5) AOB 6) insert <20p> ref here' [10:06] *** Set by Jens on Sun Jul 29 10:08:49 [10:06] <05Corinne> gods...I completely forgot [10:06] <05eric> sorry... [10:06] <05eric> momnosyllabic... [10:06] <05eric> not enough coffee [10:06] <05eric> yet [10:07] <05eric> mono [10:07] <05eric> stupid damn fingers [10:07] *** Nanny_Ogg sets mode: +o Corinne [10:07] <05Corinne> thanks sarah :) [10:08] *** lonecat has joined #movie [10:08] <05eric> anyway...it's too hot to spill properly IMO [10:08] <05Corinne> what *are* you on about, eric? [10:08] <05Nanny_Ogg> My apologies for last week BTW.... night shift again, forgot to tell you guys [10:08] <05lonecat> *wave* [10:08] <05Nanny_Ogg> Hiya [10:08] <05lonecat> I never want to see another carrot [10:08] *** Nanny_Ogg sets mode: +o lonecat [10:08] <05Corinne> sarah: it's ok, no-one minds :) [10:09] <05Nanny_Ogg> Susan - Good job we're not doing Guards! Guards! then. ;-) [10:09] <05Jens> ho cor, susan [10:09] <05lonecat> [10:09] <05Aquarion> Shall we get this show on the road then? [10:09] <05Corinne> let's roll :) [10:09] <05David> Corinne: is Thom about? [10:09] <05Corinne> he's asleep [10:09] <05David> OK [10:09] <05Aquarion> Will all people with status reports raise a hand? [10:09] <05Corinne> if it's about the script, send him an email :) [10:09] <05David> hand raised [10:10] * Aquarion raises a hand, depressedly. [10:10] <05Corinne> ditto [10:10] <05David> Aq first [10:10] <05Aquarion> Okay... [10:10] <05Aquarion> First: Within the next few days, The mailinglist will go down, I'm not sure how long for, but it should only be a day or so. [10:11] <05Aquarion> My hosting company have screwed me. [10:11] <05eric> happens [10:11] <05Aquarion> I'm setting up a new server, but I'm not totally sure how long that will take. [10:11] <05Corinne> if we knew what was happening with chris, could we get him to transfer, or would it take too long? [10:11] <05Aquarion> What with both the owner and me being at CCDE :) [10:11] *** Jens changes topic to 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: *1) status reports* 2) CCDE 3) budget 4) memberships 5) AOB 6) insert <20p> ref here' [10:11] <05eric> a lot of former secondhand car dealers run web hosts [10:12] <05Aquarion> Nope, If we had Chris it could be transfered in a few minutes. [10:12] *** falkor has joined #movie [10:12] *** Jens sets mode: +o falkor [10:12] <05Jens> Why is this not a surprising revelation? [10:12] <05Corinne> but we don't :( [10:12] <05Jens> re hippo [10:12] <05falkor> grr [10:12] <05Corinne> susan: know where he is? I sent him a mail..no reply. [10:12] <05lonecat> Chris could be anywhere frnakly [10:12] <05Aquarion> Secondly, After four weeks of computer problems and being-at-meets, I appear to be back in the Real World :) [10:13] <05Corinne> *sigh* [10:13] <05Corinne> poor nick *hug* [10:13] <05Corinne> :) [10:13] <05Aquarion> Corinne: I have a new email addy for Chris at work, so I'll shout. [10:13] <05Corinne> ok, great [10:13] <05eric> never mind Nick...there's drugs you can take to fix that... [10:13] *** hippo has quit IRC (Ping timeout for hippo[host213-122-77-49.btinternet.com]) [10:13] <05eric> beer works too [10:13] *** falkor is now known as hippo [10:13] <05Aquarion> Best cure for TRW seems to be Meets, in fact. [10:14] <05charlotte> I think my server could host the list. I'll investigate [10:14] <05Nanny_Ogg> Nick - I'll eat chocolate to that..... [10:14] <05Aquarion> charlotte: DC won't :( [10:14] <05Corinne> david chapman? :) [10:15] <05David> Sorry I can't help out from this neck of the woods, but I tend to be a bit of a Newton Pulsifer when it comes to that sort of thing [10:15] <05Aquarion> It's the main reason I'm on Kevin's new server, because he's offered to host the list. [10:15] <05Corinne> if we can get hold of chris, we can have maskerade email addresses, the works. [10:15] *** Kincaid has joined #movie [10:15] *** Jens sets mode: +o Kincaid [10:15] <05Jens> hi kinc [10:15] <05Kincaid> yo [10:15] <05charlotte> hi kincaid [10:15] <05David> Howdy, Kincaid [10:15] <05Aquarion> Fourthly, The 1KEC exists, and has had it's first Final Demand... [10:15] <05Corinne> heya kincaid [10:15] <05eric> I think a few days without the list would be worth it to get it hosted safely somewhere we can rely on... [10:16] <05Corinne> aq: what for?! [10:16] <05Aquarion> Corinne: Durham audition. [10:16] <05eric> I'd say go with Kevin...I trust him to get stuff at least approximately right [10:16] <05Corinne> eek [10:16] <05charlotte> we could set it up on yahoogroups or topica. That's pretty reliable, if just as a temoary measure [10:16] <05Corinne> who's kevin? [10:16] <05Aquarion> Corinne: Laurabelle's boyfriend. [10:17] <05David> Not back to Yahoo groups again! [10:17] <05eric> assuming you mean the Kevin I think you mean [10:17] <05Corinne> charlotte: some people here have violent objections to yahoo [10:17] <05Corinne> cool [10:17] <05eric> yep [10:17] <05Aquarion> There was a 30 day delay between doing the audition and getting the club set up, so I got a new letter. [10:17] <05Aquarion> We have Letterheads, and possibly business cards, but that's because work is dull ATM :) [10:17] <05Corinne> [10:17] <05charlotte> I wouldn't be surprised. it is evil. hence topica, which is not so violently disagreeable... [10:18] <05Aquarion> T-Shirts are designed and ready for pre-orders to be taken, I think... [10:18] <05Corinne> pff, it's not like many people read the list anyway :) [10:18] <05Jens> Well, let's leave that to aq and move on to the next status report... I volunteer Corinne for alphabetical reasons [10:18] <05Aquarion> ...DVD's can be made indervidually, so we can burn that bridge when we come to it... [10:18] <05Jens> aq: memberships is #4... [10:18] <05Corinne> aq: for how much? [10:19] <05Jens> and budget is #3 [10:19] <05Aquarion> Corinne: About Ł20, unless we get lots. [10:19] <05Aquarion> And I'm sorry for missing four weeks meetings [10:19] <05Corinne> just because last week's meeting was a complete shower doesn't mean you have to get all moody and authoratarian about this one jens :) [10:19] <05David> Corinne's turn [10:19] *** MissSusan has joined #movie [10:20] *** Aquarion sets mode: +o MissSusan [10:20] * MissSusan says bad things [10:20] *** lonecat has quit IRC (Ping timeout for lonecat[m173-mp1-cvx1b.big.ntl.com]) [10:20] <05Jens> Cor: I was just experimenting... maybe we can limit this to two hours? [10:20] *** MissSusan is now known as lonecat [10:20] <05Corinne> right, well through a mailing list I've been recommended, I found a free media law advice service [10:20] <05Jens> ooooh [10:20] <05David> handy [10:21] <05Corinne> I asked them about a contract, and they gave a very simple formula, so it mightn't be as complicated as we first thought [10:21] <05David> *very* handy [10:21] <05Aquarion> Back in a bit. Parents what fscking phone [10:21] <05Corinne> I'll just find the url, and then if anyone else has a legal issue they want to raise, they can check it with this. [10:21] *** Jens is now known as JnsCoffee [10:21] <05eric> Aq...burn the heretics (discreetly of course) [10:22] <05Corinne> I'm not sure if it allows you to ask more than one question, and I already have : [10:22] <05Corinne> ) [10:22] <05Corinne> http://www.medialex-uk.com [10:23] <05Corinne> should I put the mail I received on the website? do people want to read it? [10:23] <05Corinne> or maybe the mailing list [10:23] *** JnsCoffee is now known as Jens [10:23] <05Jens> web site: it's of persistent interest [10:23] <05eric> mailing list is more "temporary" [10:23] <05Corinne> and some people don't/can't read it either [10:24] <05eric> more coffee...brb [10:24] *** hippo has quit IRC (Ping timeout for hippo[host213-122-124-221.btinternet.com]) [10:24] *** Aquarion has left IRC [10:24] *** Aquarion has quit IRC (Ping timeout for Aquarion[aquarion.demon.co.uk]) [10:25] *** Aquarion is on IRC [10:25] *** Aquarion has joined #movie [10:25] <05Jens> re aq [10:25] <05Aquarion> Grr. Rehello [10:26] *** Jens sets mode: +o Aquarion [10:26] <05David> rehello [10:26] <05Jens> any more corinneoid status to be reported? [10:27] <05Corinne> nope :) [10:27] <05Corinne> I'm trying to get posters printed for ccde, but that's about it [10:27] * Jens hands david the reporting podium [10:27] <05David> OK [10:28] <05David> I've read Thom's scripts from start to finish... [10:28] <05David> and I have to say, this is going to be ONE GOOD FILM [10:28] <05eric> funny that...I read them the same order [10:28] <05Jens> I didn't. I read them in alphabetical order. [10:28] <05David> He's got the spirit down AFAIC and that's the hardest part of adapting scripts [10:28] <05eric> aol to that [10:29] <05Jens> indeed [10:29] <05Corinne> where's the but? [10:29] <05Jens> or even the and? [10:29] <05Kincaid> sitting on it? [10:29] <05David> I feel supremely confident that this film is going to work *really* well, with Thom's script of a film's engine room humming along like this [10:29] <05David> ...but... [10:29] <05Corinne> [10:30] <05Corinne> go on :) [10:30] <05eric> *points*...there it is..I seen it [10:30] <05David> it's not finished. Now this "but" is not to be greatly feared. My own thinking is that Thom has written sections, and is intent on stitching them together afterwards [10:30] <05Corinne> yers.. [10:30] <05David> It's the stitching together that's the "but". [10:31] <05David> It is not to be underestimated. [10:31] <05Corinne> and I'm sure he doesn't underestimate it [10:31] -> [Corinne] PING [10:31] <05David> Having said that, Thom has - to me - proven that he has what it takes to do the job right. [10:31] <05Jens> agreed. [10:31] <05David> The problem I forsee is that he is going to write about 200 - 250 pages [10:31] <05eric> I suspect he may estimate it just right, and underestimate himself a little [10:31] <05Corinne> well duh :) [10:32] <05Corinne> it's a perennial behavioural fault of afpers [10:32] <05David> The average motion picture screenplay is about 90 pages long [10:32] <05David> which means he is going to be faced with the odious task of snipping and tucking [10:32] <05David> which for a writer can be bloody painful at the best of times [10:32] <05Corinne> the second draft is *usually* a combined effort [10:33] <05David> so ... I want to suggest the task be handed to someone else, and he can then go over the whimpering remains... [10:33] <05David> and... [10:33] <05Aquarion> Swear bloody revenge on the person who cut his favourite bits out? [10:33] <05Corinne> like that's gonna happen [10:33] <05eric> I may be able to get a couple of useful bods to give the first complete draft a run over [10:34] <05David> *rewrite* the whole thing to the shorter length basing the final version on an adaptation of the original version [10:34] <05Corinne> I think he'd appreciate it more if the criticism came from you lot, yknow? [10:34] <05David> er - if that makes sense. [10:34] <05eric> an experienced screen writer and a BBC TV comedy producer [10:34] *** Supermous has joined #movie [10:34] *** Jens sets mode: +o Supermous [10:34] <05Supermous> hi [10:34] <05Jens> hi sm [10:34] <05David> Hiya mouse [10:34] <05Corinne> this is a film for Afpers, by afpers, right? [10:34] <05Aquarion> Indeed [10:34] <05David> Anyway, I don't know how precious he is of the script... [10:34] <05Corinne> only an afper could understand it's subtle nuances [10:35] <05Corinne> so only afpers can tear it to shreds [10:35] <05David> if he has become very precious, then this task can become quite painful [10:35] <05eric> yep...and Adam has most if not all of the DW books...Ellen has one or two [10:35] <05Corinne> they're the only people with any right to do so [10:35] <05Corinne> yes, but they aren't [10:35] <05eric> otherwise I wouldn't suggest them [10:35] <05Corinne> *AFPers* [10:35] <05Corinne> they're discworld [10:35] <05Corinne> but AFP has it's own special way [10:35] <05Corinne> the spiced ham joke, for instance. [10:35] <05Corinne> any reference to chocolate :) [10:35] <05Corinne> of alligators [10:35] <05Aquarion> A very strange and odd way, but special. [10:36] <05Aquarion> No. Not Alligators. [10:36] <05Corinne> I *was* going to put "" round it :) [10:36] <05Corinne> kidding already :) [10:36] <05David> The screenplay in its current form is *very* solid. [10:36] <05David> The hard part for any script editor is choosing what to cut [10:36] <05Corinne> what I'm saying is, only fully paid up members of AFP, who understand the injokes, can get the movie enough to criticise/hack at it properly [10:36] <05David> coz it's all so bloody good [10:37] <05David> Now ... there *is* a contingency for this... [10:37] <05Jens> OK... shall we move on? (I've got a book to read. ;-) ) [10:37] <05Jens> oh [10:37] <05Corinne> jens: you can go whenever you want, if you need to go.. [10:37] <05Aquarion> Jens: The answer you are looking for here is "No" :) [10:37] <05David> sorry - I'm a slow typer [10:37] <05Corinne> na, jens is in an unnatural hurry today :) [10:37] <05Jens> I missed th contingency bit. [10:38] <05David> the contingency is based on the proviso that Thom's a *very* good writer, which *I* think he is [10:38] <05Corinne> of course he is [10:38] <05David> The issue is whether *he* knows he is [10:38] <05eric> oh yes indeedy [10:38] <05Corinne> and he does know it, in his own way. look, he's said himself he can't critique his own work [10:38] <05Corinne> so he needs you people to do it for him [10:38] <05David> coz what I'm going to suggest is that *he* edit the script down to its final size [10:39] <05David> and then it goes out to all of us for critical comment and suggestions [10:39] <05Corinne> yes, but he needs to be able to critique to do that [10:39] <05David> and I mean *all* of us [10:39] <05Corinne> and he's not very good at it :) [10:39] <05Corinne> what's done of the script already has, but the only criticism he's got is pedantry. [10:39] <05David> Cor: it may just need you and he and maybe a couple of others to simply sit down and read it out loud to one another [10:39] <05Corinne> david: that's the idea. [10:39] <05David> get a feel for it out in the open [10:40] <05Aquarion> Private Reading at CCDE? [10:40] <05David> and base some changes on that [10:40] <05David> Aq: might be the ticket [10:40] <05Corinne> david: that's what happens with normal scripts [10:40] <05David> not film scripts [10:40] <05Corinne> this isn't a normal film script :) [10:40] <05David> well ... rarely anyway [10:40] <05eric> what I'd do if I had a playwright in theeh same situation is suggest they make a draft with nearly everything... [10:40] <05David> Cor: believe it or not - it *is* [10:40] <05Supermous> alpha readers [10:41] <05eric> ...and workshop it with four or five actors for a day... [10:41] <05Corinne> but if you've read it, and have any ideas of what you think are extraneous to the plot, non-essential, then *tell* him :) [10:41] <05Corinne> he won't get upset [10:41] <05eric> ...so that they can see which bits gel [10:41] <05Corinne> he *likes* catalysts for change [10:41] <05David> No - it needs to be his call [10:41] <05Corinne> no it doesnt, because he doesn't know what his call *is* [10:41] <05Aquarion> I have yet to read it, because my Office disc is under a tea-mug somewhere :) [10:42] <05David> I don't believe even in a workshop anyone should suggest that such-andsuch a scene gets snipped or anything. The changes and shortening needs to come from Thom [10:42] * Jens didn't notice anything from the department of redundancy department last time he read it, but will look harder [10:42] <05David> What needs to happen is Thom needs to experience what he's written outside his own head [10:42] <05Corinne> now this is just a case of everyone *Else* feeling inadequate to edit the script [10:42] <05Corinne> well, you're not, ok. [10:42] <05eric> Jens...it's going to need a modicum of total brutality to edit it [10:43] <05Supermous> :0) anyone can do the 'I know what I like' critiquing, that's easy [10:43] <05David> I don't want to edit the script, because *I've* become too precious about it - I love it and what Thom's done with it [10:43] <05Corinne> jens, he wanted you to be co-writer, so you have the authority to snip it, david, he respects your judgement, so so can you, and eric goes without saying. [10:43] <05eric> I'm quite happy to edit it when he's finished the draft... [10:43] <05eric> but I'd like to hear/see people reading the lines first...even more so I'd like thom to hear/see it [10:43] <05Corinne> then stop being precious cos he needs *realism*. [10:44] <05David> In spite of the time it will take, I stongly recommend you leave editing it to when Thom has stitched it all together ... but not very long afterwards [10:44] <05eric> agreed [10:44] <05Corinne> of course [10:44] <05Corinne> but he'll need a *lot* of input for the editing [10:44] <05David> Even though I already have ideas about a couple of scenes [10:44] *** kerosene has joined #movie [10:44] <05Corinne> whether it's discussion groups or personal critique [10:44] <05David> well .. more about characterizations than scenes [10:44] *** Aquarion sets mode: +o kerosene [10:44] <05eric> my reasoning for wanting a reading is I think thom actually writes better screen dialogue than Terry does in teh novel... [10:45] *** charlotte has quit IRC (Ping timeout for charlotte[host213-122-32-121.btinternet.com]) [10:45] <05eric> unsurprisingly since it's a novel... [10:45] <05David> Eric: AOL [10:45] *** kerosene is now known as charlotte [10:45] <05Corinne> you can't use your imagination? [10:45] <05eric> but I'd like thom to have proof [10:45] <05Aquarion> Okay, Conclusions then... [10:45] <05Corinne> http://afpmovie.orcon.net.nz/index.html the what's new section for the legal thang. [10:45] <05Aquarion> Script reading at CCDE? [10:45] <05Corinne> once the script is finished, we need to get together [10:45] <05eric> yep...I can use my imagination...otherwise I'd be no use at all... [10:45] <05Aquarion> People to send Critique to Thom... [10:45] <05Corinne> have a reading, take notes. [10:46] <05David> Cor: a screenplay is not written to inspire your imagination as such - it's more trying to make solid forms out of Thom's (and Pterry's) imagination [10:46] <05eric> ...but four or five other peoples imagination running simultaneously can be an extremely powerful thing [10:46] <05Corinne> david: it doesn't take much to imagine it though, but that's just my experience, I suppose. [10:46] <05David> eric: true enough [10:46] <05David> It's more a listening to the cadence of the dialogue [10:46] <05David> and imagining how the *camera* is going to see things [10:47] <05Aquarion> We are circling here. [10:47] <05Corinne> never :) [10:47] <05eric> cadence and truth...and those strange little quirky things that really get performers fired up [10:47] <05Aquarion> ...*bing* Next Item. [10:47] <05David> and it doesn't matter if it's done with actors or non-actors [10:47] <05Supermous> CCDE? [10:47] <05eric> it helps if it's people who can cold read with enthusiasm [10:48] <05Aquarion> Reading at CCDE, Crit to Thom, Beware of Stiching. [10:48] <05David> And on that note ladies and gents, I must leave you all. I have some hired help for my own film that I need to go and pick up on this cold and windy night in Sydney, and it's going to take me ages to drive there and back. [10:48] *** eric is now known as Western_U [10:48] *** Jens changes topic to 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: 1) status reports *) CCDE* 3) budget 4) memberships 5) AOB 6) insert <20p> ref here' [10:48] <05Western_U> "t" for Mr Avenell [10:48] <05Corinne> bye david, have fun :) [10:49] <05David> g'night [10:49] *** Western_U is now known as eric [10:49] <05Aquarion> Okay, Bye David [10:49] *** David has quit IRC (ShadowIRC 1.1b2 PPC) [10:49] <05Aquarion> eric: :-P [10:49] * lonecat raises a paw [10:49] <05Aquarion> Right, For those of use too incompetant to get to meetings, What is happening at CCDE? And do you need an announcer? :-) [10:49] <05Corinne> no, we need participants [10:49] <05eric> reports first [10:50] <05Corinne> and if people would look at the website, they'd know all about it [10:50] <05Jens> If the webbie tells all about it, what is it we need to discuss? [10:51] <05Corinne> oh great, david left without telling us if he had the microphones or not [10:52] <05lonecat> I may get dragged away at any moment [10:52] <05eric> buggrit [10:52] <05Aquarion> Okay, Lonecat's report? [10:52] <05Corinne> we'll have to find some of our own. [10:52] <05Corinne> go on susan.. [10:52] *** Jens changes topic to 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: *1) status reports* 2) CCDE 3) budget 4) memberships 5) AOB 6) insert <20p> ref here' [10:52] *** Joy has joined #movie [10:52] <05lonecat> Firstly: I deny everything [10:52] *** Jens sets mode: +o Joy [10:52] <05Joy> hi [10:52] <05Jens> hi joy [10:52] <05eric> hi Joy [10:52] <05Corinne> hi joy *hug* [10:52] <05Aquarion> Everythi... Ah. Everything. [10:53] <05lonecat> 2: I've remembered that my granny used to make theatrical costumes [10:53] <05eric> susan...we don't believe you [10:53] <05Corinne> and we don't believe nicholas either ;) [10:53] <05lonecat> so I'm going to raid her loft if I get the chance [10:53] <05lonecat> Should be some useful stuff, hopefully [10:53] <05eric> whoopee! I love using borrowed cossies [10:53] <05Corinne> susan: you seen the latest costume designs on the site? [10:53] <05lonecat> yes [10:54] <05lonecat> looks good [10:54] <05Corinne> cool [10:54] <05Supermous> hi Joy [10:54] <05Corinne> gotta stop saying that [10:54] <05lonecat> 3: I guess now we nearly have a script I can get a cast list pretty soon [10:54] <05lonecat> at which point my costume notes will be turned into html so they can go online [10:55] <05eric> also time I started looking over the design stuff in some more detail [10:55] <05Supermous> eep, I just realised I own a Prop [10:55] *** Thomas is on IRC [10:55] <05lonecat> 4: what kind of microphones? [10:55] *** Thomas has joined #movie [10:55] *** Jens sets mode: +o Thomas [10:55] <05Supermous> nemmind, I digress [10:55] <05Corinne> wow, you finally made it :) [10:55] <05Thomas> morning [10:55] <05Jens> Morning thommo. You're up early. [10:55] <05Joy> hi thomas [10:55] <05Corinne> susan: radio and/or not. [10:55] <05eric> hi Thomas [10:55] <05Thomas> yeah... was replying to something on the mail list, when i realised... [10:55] <05Supermous> but if anyone knows how to fix the tension on a wilcox and gibbs, they can use it for any sewingt heyw ant to use it for [10:56] <05Thomas> people were actually here :) [10:56] <05Supermous> hi thomas [10:56] <05lonecat> 5: Jenny Radcliffe was in here last night, and may turn up here if she wakes up in time [10:56] <05Corinne> ok [10:56] <05eric> *very loud* wake up Jenny [10:56] <05lonecat> Her /nick is flopsie [10:57] <05Aquarion> ... [10:57] <05Corinne> aahh, that explains it [10:57] <05lonecat> There are reasons [10:57] <05lonecat> I don't know what they are [10:58] <05Aquarion> Okay, Any more status reports [10:58] <05Thomas> jenny radcliffe? [10:58] <05Supermous> an afper [10:58] <05Corinne> thomas: our accountant [10:58] <05Aquarion> Thomas: Our accountant. [10:58] <05Corinne> jinx! [10:58] <05Thomas> thank you [10:58] <05Aquarion> *laugh* [10:58] <05Jens> CCDE? [10:58] <05Corinne> right, CCDE [10:58] <05Supermous> oh no, not superstitious physical mutilation [10:58] <05Aquarion> CCDE done. [10:58] <05Corinne> it is? [10:59] *** Jens changes topic to 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: 1) status reports *2) CCDE* 3) budget 4) memberships 5) AOB 6) insert <20p> ref here' [10:59] <05Corinne> anyone know where we can get a microphone or five? [10:59] <05Aquarion> Corinne: As i recall, you said that if anything was unknown, look at the website. [10:59] <05Corinne> yes, for the *event*, but there's stll things to discuss [10:59] <05eric> OK...while Corinne does the mic thang...how many performers do we have? [11:00] <05Supermous> what sort of microphone? [11:00] <05Aquarion> eric: I'll do it :) [11:00] *** hippo has joined #movie [11:00] <05hippo> re [11:00] <05Supermous> re hippo [11:00] <05eric> good...I was kind of hoping you'd say that Nick :) [11:00] <05Corinne> alistair will too, as we already know [11:00] * hippo grrs : why does the connection have to play up on sunday mornings :( [11:00] *** Jens sets mode: +o hippo [11:01] <05eric> six or so would be nice [11:01] <05Supermous> what sort of microphone? [11:01] <05Thomas> performers? [11:01] <05Corinne> a hand held type, with our without lead [11:01] <05Thomas> for the improv thing? [11:01] <05Corinne> thomas: yes [11:01] <05Thomas> i'll do it too [11:01] <05Supermous> oh, right, got one of those [11:01] <05Corinne> that's good [11:02] <05Supermous> where/when do you want it? [11:02] <05Corinne> I can't find mine :( [11:02] <05eric> and at least one "scantily clad heroine...portrayed by adding something skimpy over the top of normal clothing of course [11:02] <05Corinne> friday night at 7, ccde. [11:02] <05Supermous> mine *should* be in A Safe Place [11:02] <05eric> clip on mics would be better [11:02] <05Aquarion> Ah, a Very Safe Place? [11:02] <05Supermous> brb I'll go eyeball [11:02] <05Corinne> sm: the worst place :) [11:02] <05Corinne> eric: do you know *anyone* with a clip on mic? [11:02] <05eric> and we'll need something to mix the mics with [11:03] <05Kincaid> what power is there in the barn? [11:03] <05eric> Corinne...yep...but not in the UK [11:03] <05Corinne> well, most people would've automatically added "helpfully near" to that sentence [11:03] <05Supermous> b [11:03] <05Aquarion> I know someone, but he won't lend me mikes that are going to a field :( [11:04] <05Supermous> yup, there it is. an ordinary karaoke-style mike, sans spoffle [11:04] <05Thomas> kinky: there's 1 (one) power point on the back of the stage [11:04] <05Corinne> ok, so if I find mine, that's three. [11:04] <05Jens> Spoffle? [11:04] <05eric> that's the problem..."can I boprrow some expensive equipment that I'll keep in a tent in a farm for the weekend"...doesn't often work [11:04] <05Supermous> sponge cover thing [11:04] * Jens has only geeked mics in Swedish [11:04] <05Corinne> so, anyone got a car to carry an amp in? [11:05] <05Kincaid> see need a multiway thingy then [11:05] <05Thomas> brb [11:05] <05Corinne> so who's going to bring an adaptor, just in case? [11:05] <05eric> yep...something to feed mics to the amp [11:05] <05Kincaid> I got a six way, ifn I remember [11:06] <05Corinne> with surge protection :) [11:06] <05Kincaid> no, don't own a surge protector [11:06] <05Supermous> I'll sweet talk my housemate... brb [11:07] <05Corinne> anyone got something to plug into the amp to allow multiple mics? [11:07] <05Corinne> or access to one, anyway. [11:07] <05Supermous> no I won't, he's asleep [11:07] <05eric> 4 channels would do at a pinch [11:07] <05Aquarion> Er.. I have a double-to-single phono plug, but that's about it. [11:08] <05Kincaid> however, I will bring my minidisc player/recorder to record the sound - Battery, but mains is more reliable, and I'll need to know what connectors I'll need [11:08] <05Thomas> b [11:08] <05Thomas> kinky: bring 'em all and hope for the best [11:08] <05lonecat> I can ask my dad [11:10] <05Kincaid> well, I've got 3.5mm jack-3.5mm jack, and 3.5mm jack-standard stereo connectors (two plugs, centre pin/ring) [11:10] <05Aquarion> Okay, Anymore on CCDE? [11:10] <05lonecat> props? [11:10] <05Corinne> we seem to have everything near as dammit from the mailing list [11:11] <05Thomas> yup.. got clapperbaord. and lightsabers [11:11] <05Jens> ISTR the standing request WRT props is: bring 'em. Seems good enough... [11:11] <05eric> I still need a volunteer to play "scantily clad heroines" [11:11] * lonecat apologises for not haing been on the mailing list since July 4th [11:11] <05Corinne> thomas? ;) [11:11] <05lonecat> no! [11:11] <05Thomas> only got 419 elephants in the back garden, so no go there [11:11] <05Thomas> No! [11:11] <05lonecat> please! [11:11] <05Corinne> [11:11] <05lonecat> not again! [11:11] <05Thomas> really... [11:11] <05Thomas> never again [11:11] <05eric> ...and we could use one or two more improvisers in general [11:12] <05Corinne> well, you'll just have to collect them on the night [11:12] <05lonecat> If I can overcome the raging shyness I'll volunteer [11:12] <05eric> damn...I thought the idea of Thomas a s ascantily clad heroine might be quite fetching [11:12] <05Thomas> eric were you at the last ccde? [11:12] <05eric> thanks susan [11:12] <05Corinne> it's been done, eric :) [11:12] <05eric> Corinne...yep [11:12] <05Corinne> and it wasn't a pretty sight :) [11:12] <05lonecat> "Really very disturbing slice" [11:12] <05Thomas> *shudder* [11:13] <05charlotte> I'll see how tired i am, but i'll probably be available to be scantily clad [11:13] <05Kincaid> fnaar [11:13] * Corinne wipes away the drool from kincaid [11:13] <05eric> excellent...didn't want to have an all male improv...limits the available gags for one thing [11:13] <05Corinne> ah, but crossdressing expands it :) [11:14] <05eric> scantily clad in this case means normal clothes with something skimpy thrown on over the top [11:14] <05Joy> I've never noticed gender getting in the way of improv [11:14] <05eric> cross dressing is a definite option [11:14] <05Thomas> mmm... [11:14] <05Thomas> some more than others... [11:14] <05Thomas> *mutters darkly* [11:14] <05Corinne> [11:15] <05Aquarion> Okay, Budget then? [11:15] <05eric> meeting at 5.30 at the catering van to get organised [11:15] <05Corinne> pff...we'll have only just got there [11:15] <05Thomas> good :) egg & bacon bap to be getting on with [11:15] <05eric> be there or go on stage with no idea what is going on :) [11:15] <05Corinne> got to have time to put the tent up etc [11:16] <05Corinne> well, thom probably won't mind, and I'm not doing it. [11:16] <05Supermous> what day, friday? [11:16] <05Corinne> sm: yeah [11:16] <05eric> yep [11:16] <05Corinne> http://afpmovie.orcon.net.nz/ccde.html [11:16] <05Supermous> someone please remind me very close to the time, because I'll very likely forget and I mean to be there [11:16] <05eric> one more CCDE thing...do we know a time and place that we can hold an actual audition [11:17] <05Corinne> *shrug* anytime/place we like [11:17] <05Corinne> as long as it's in the middle of a field [11:17] <05Thomas> eric: well, the stage isn't used for large portions of the day [11:17] <05Corinne> probably will have to stagger several over the time [11:17] <05Aquarion> The Field, Saturday afternoon :) [11:17] <05eric> OK...so 11am Saturday and Sunday [11:17] <05Supermous> the stage would be better if elton's done his sacrifice [11:18] <05Thomas> sacrifice? [11:18] <05eric> in which case I should be able to confirm a voice workshop to go with at least one audition :) [11:19] <05Supermous> the black goat [11:19] <05Supermous> or is it white goat? [11:19] <05Supermous> one of the two [11:19] <05Thomas> eric: you're not expecting this to be video-ed are you? [11:19] <05eric> not particularly [11:19] <05Thomas> good [11:20] <05Thomas> because parent's camera to rehearsal rooms is one thing.. to dusty field another.. [11:20] <05Corinne> patrick's got a camera too though [11:20] <05Thomas> oh good [11:20] <05Jens> Budget? [11:20] <05eric> videoing this one is a bonus [11:21] <05Aquarion> Budget. [11:21] *** Jens changes topic to 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: 1) status reports 2) CCDE *3) budget* 4) memberships 5) AOB 6) insert <20p> ref here' [11:21] *** Jens changes topic to 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: [1) status reports] [2) CCDE] *3) budget* 4) memberships 5) AOB 6) insert <20p> ref here' [11:21] <05Aquarion> We have Ł7.90. [11:22] <05hippo> yay [11:22] * Thomas finds a 50p piece down the side of his chair [11:22] <05Aquarion> Not quite, We did have Ł32.90 [11:22] <05Jens> OK... so, does anyone have quotes for T-shirt printing, video repro & DVD repro? [11:22] <05Corinne> [11:22] <05Aquarion> T-Shirts are still Ł10 personalised (Numbered). [11:23] <05Thomas> "Go on, see my film, it isn't that bad..." on my t-shirt please... [11:23] <05Jens> ISTR last week it was determined that eric, against all expectation, didn't. Why these expectations existed wasn't quite clear... [11:23] <05Thomas> oh, not that kind of quote [11:23] <05Corinne> jens: um...because aqua had told him them? [11:24] <05Aquarion> DVDs are Ł20 indervidual, going down to Ł15ish when 100 are ordered [11:24] <05Aquarion> VHS wasn' anything to do with me :) [11:24] <05Jens> VHS was about three or four quid as I recall [11:24] <05Jens> in bulk [11:24] <05Kincaid> yep [11:25] <05Jens> So basically, not doing DVD seems a good idea for reasons of realistic expectations [11:25] <05Corinne> we've had about 7 people wanting them. [11:26] <05eric> seems to imply a membership price of Ł25-30 with a Ł15-20 extra for dvd? [11:26] <05Aquarion> But by the time we actually release this, DVD might be a bit more populer. [11:26] <05Aquarion> But yes, for now I think we might have to scrap DVD [11:27] <05Thomas> well, we'll have a master version, right? if that time comes, we can re-release it then [11:27] <05Jens> quite [11:27] <05eric> I agree...dvd to be arranged separately later if required [11:27] <05Corinne> right [11:27] <05Corinne> wow, a decision ;) [11:28] <05eric> a decision that simplifies things [11:29] <05Supermous> but by then it will be too late to blackma^Wrequest donations for not putting requested goofs in the offcuts section [11:29] <05Kincaid> *faints* *lapse in logging* [11:32] <05eric> audition videos are screentests only [11:32] <05Aquarion> Okay [11:32] *** Corinne has quit IRC (Ping timeout for Corinne[ppp-5-21.5800-10.access.uk.worldonline.com]) [11:32] <05evil_thom> anything happen in the last three minutes? [11:33] *** Jens sets mode: +o evil_thom [11:33] *** evil_thom has left IRC [11:33] *** evil_thom is now known as Corinne [11:33] <05Supermous> discussion of outakes, good or bad [11:33] *** Jens sets mode: +o Aquarion [11:33] <05Corinne> outtakes? whyfor? [11:33] <05eric> out takes should be thought about only when we edit [11:33] <05Jens> quite [11:34] <05Nanny_Ogg> Eric - Some people might be willing to have their audition videos used. Obviously you couldn't do it without the agreement of all concerned, but I don't see that it would be impossible to at least ask. [11:34] <05eric> ...we don't know that anything funny will happen [11:34] <05Jens> outtakes are *not* a budget issue [11:34] <05Corinne> why are they *any* kind of issue? [11:34] <05Nanny_Ogg> Eric - I can't *believe* it will be possible to make the entire film without anything funny happening. [11:34] <05Jens> blackmail as a business model was suggested... [11:34] <05Corinne> ahh [11:34] <05Corinne> of course [11:34] <05Aquarion> This is true. [11:34] <05Aquarion> Actual Budget issues? Anybody? [11:34] <05Thomas> DVD budget -> DVD extras ->out-takes [11:34] <05eric> nor can I Sarah...but I prefer to play it safe :) [11:34] <05Thomas> *shrug* [11:34] <05Corinne> dvd no having [11:35] <05Thomas> yup [11:35] <05Aquarion> Corinne: Videos > Extra Features > Outtakes [11:35] <05Jens> sarah: funny things happening doesn't mean the outtakes will be funny to those who weren't there [11:35] <05Nanny_Ogg> True. But those who _were_ there might want to pay extra for the memories. ;-) [11:35] <05eric> it's a decision to take when we know what "footage" we have [11:35] <05charlotte> I must depart for work. bye all [11:35] <05Jens> Anyway... now that we've trashed DVDs, can we move onto memberships with a minimum of trepidation? [11:36] <05Supermous> or pay a great deal extra never to have to remember again [11:36] <05eric> bye charlotte [11:36] <05Supermous> bye charlotte [11:36] <05Thomas> sarah: still very clique-y... [11:36] <05Corinne> bye charlotte [11:36] <05Thomas> byebye [11:36] <05Aquarion> Bye charlotte [11:36] <05Corinne> sarah: and limited value [11:36] <05Nanny_Ogg> Bye, charlotte [11:36] <05Aquarion> Anyway, Does anyone have any fantastic ideas for a way of making money? Or do I invest the budget into the Lottery? [11:36] <05Corinne> aq: go for it :) [11:36] <05Thomas> nick: horses. beter odds. [11:36] <05eric> I can't make a donation this month [11:36] <05hippo> aq : better odds on the gee gees [11:36] <05Thomas> better [11:36] *** charlotte has quit IRC (why did i agree to work on a sunday) [11:37] <05eric> 's a good pune [11:37] <05Aquarion> Okay, So. 7.90 will get u [11:37] <05Aquarion> s where? [11:38] <05Corinne> drunk? [11:38] <05eric> set a mambership price and lets start collecting members [11:38] <05Supermous> I second that [11:39] <05eric> I got drunl last weekend for Ł1.50 [11:39] <05Supermous> then I just have to choose between having a membership or having a passport [11:39] <05eric> drunk [11:39] <05Aquarion> Okay, We need a membership price before thursday [11:39] <05Thomas> eric: still there? ;)P [11:39] *** Jens changes topic to 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: [1) status reports] [2) CCDE] [3) budget] *4) memberships* 5) AOB 6) insert <20p> ref here' [11:39] <05eric> why not set the price now? [11:39] <05Aquarion> Current prices: Ł10 T-Shirt, Ł4 Videos, How much markup? [11:39] <05eric> at least a tenner [11:40] <05Corinne> 24.99? [11:40] <05eric> Ł30 would be neat [11:40] <05Corinne> no-one will pay that much [11:40] <05eric> Ł25 would also be fine [11:40] <05Thomas> but... expensive? [11:40] <05Corinne> you gotta think marketing strategy [11:40] <05Thomas> i think Ł20 is the upper limit [11:40] <05Corinne> 19.99 :) [11:40] <05Thomas> well.. yeah :) [11:40] <05Supermous> corinne: no! please! [11:40] <05eric> why Ł20?...we need to find 2000 members at that price [11:41] <05Corinne> we could get david to do a nice trailer for clarecraft on the video [11:41] <05Nanny_Ogg> Will there be discounts for students/the unemployed? [11:41] <05eric> I don't see how that Ł5 is such a big difference [11:41] <05Thomas> well, what kind of people are we looking for? [11:41] <05Corinne> but people *like* getting 1p change :) [11:41] <05Supermous> eric: at my incm level, beleive me, it is [11:41] <05Thomas> cor: in 4 days? [11:41] <05Jens> Speaking as an unemployee with an exchange rate problem, Ł25 is OK [11:41] <05Supermous> but I still think i could afford 25 ukp. it would hurt, but I could do it. [11:41] <05Corinne> thomas: um..no? [11:42] <05lonecat> I'd pay 25 [11:42] <05Joy> 25 quid is more than I can afford [11:42] <05Corinne> me too [11:42] <05Joy> but then, so's 20 [11:42] <05Corinne> and thom :) [11:42] <05lonecat> 30 is too much imp [11:42] <05eric> sm...when I was unemployed Ł20 would hurt...Ł25 wouldn't hurt that much more [11:42] <05lonecat> imo [11:42] <05Supermous> 30 ukp would be thanks but no thanks [11:42] <05Joy> I'll manage summat [11:42] <05Corinne> eric: that's you, you're *not* normal. [11:42] <05Supermous> how long ago was that? [11:42] <05Corinne> how about an installment plan? [11:42] <05Aquarion> Right, Ł250 per membership? [11:42] <05Thomas> ooh, good idea [11:43] <05Thomas> er... joking, right? [11:43] <05eric> I'm just worried that we'll end up with membership not bringing in any money at all [11:43] <05Jens> installment plan could be a Good Idea [11:43] <05Aquarion> Hmm. Not for a corperate membership. [11:43] <05Supermous> installment plan makes it easier to swallow but means more administration, will the final outcome be worth it? [11:43] <05Thomas> or is that special 'terry' membership? [11:43] * hippo considers seducing little ol ladies ala The Producers [11:44] <05eric> and we need money NOW...not later [11:44] <05eric> I've already spent a little over Ł120 [11:44] <05Nanny_Ogg> Re: installment plan - might be a good way of getting at least a bit of money now from people who couldn't afford the whole whack [11:44] <05Thomas> installment plan of Ł20 every month? [11:45] <05Nanny_Ogg> And, since no-one answered, I reiterate: Is it worth having different rates for students/unemployed and the employed? I think it might be worth considering, at least...... [11:45] *** Aquariate has joined #movie [11:45] *** lonecat sets mode: +o Aquariate [11:46] <05Corinne> we could have 30 quid membership fee that way...15 quid isn't much [11:46] <05Corinne> most people will be able to afford that [11:46] <05Supermous> considering the number of afpers who are students and/or unemployed, possibly, if it allows us to set the 'employed' fee higher [11:46] <05Aquariate> Er.. There is the other small point, which is that for all forign transactions there will be a surcharge :( [11:47] <05Aquariate> Either to us or to them. [11:47] <05Joy> Paypal Acct? [11:47] <05Corinne> how big is the surcharge? [11:47] <05Aquariate> Joy: Then esspecially. [11:47] <05Aquariate> Researching. [11:47] <05Corinne> and can we find out who it goes too? [11:47] <05Corinne> ok [11:48] <05Thomas> gotta run.. I'll get the minutes later [11:48] <05Thomas> bye all [11:48] <05Joy> why especially? cant they pay creditcard in sterling? [11:48] *** Thomas has left IRC [11:48] *** Thomas has quit IRC (Ping timeout for Thomas[host213-122-21-202.btinternet.com]) [11:48] <05Aquariate> Basically, We can take the hit of Paypal's fees, or we can charge extra for a Paypal membership [11:48] <05Joy> 'k [11:48] <05Aquariate> For UK, we get all of the money, but all transactions though Paypal or anything will cost somebody more. [11:49] *** Nanny_Ogg has quit IRC (irc.ie.lspace.org irc.se.lspace.org) [11:49] *** Jens has quit IRC (irc.ie.lspace.org irc.se.lspace.org) [11:49] *** eric has quit IRC (irc.ie.lspace.org irc.se.lspace.org) [11:49] *** Kincaid has quit IRC (irc.ie.lspace.org irc.se.lspace.org) [11:49] *** lonecat has quit IRC (irc.ie.lspace.org irc.se.lspace.org) [11:49] *** hippo has quit IRC (irc.ie.lspace.org irc.se.lspace.org) [11:49] *** Aquarion has left IRC [11:49] *** Aquarion has quit IRC (irc.ie.lspace.org irc.se.lspace.org) [11:49] <05Supermous> hmm [11:49] <05Corinne> ooops [11:50] <05Corinne> netsplit [11:50] <05Corinne> not that anyone here doesn't know that :) [11:51] <05Aquariate> Six there, four here, I propose we move to irc.se.lspace.org [11:51] <05Joy> thirty quid plus charges is two weeks rent on my shop... for perspectives sake [11:51] <05Aquariate> Exactly, I think 30 is too high [11:52] <05Joy> 'k changing servers *netsplit* [11:52] <05eric> ? [11:52] <05Jens> No you aren't [11:52] *** Jens sets mode: +o Corinne [11:52] <05Corinne> silly netsplit [11:52] <05Aquarion> Very [11:52] *** Joy has joined #movie [11:52] <05Nonymouse> eric: summat like [11:52] *** Jens sets mode: +o Joy [11:53] <05Nonymouse> Joy: WRT what you said, then NZ rents are _very_ low [11:53] <05Joy> so are NZ salaries [11:53] <05Jens> What happened after eric said "I'd rather set a reasonably low price and allow people to make extra donations if they can afford it" ? [11:53] <05Jens> I attemted to say: [11:54] <05Aquarion> Basically 30 is too high. 20 is nice, and then people can add as desired. [11:54] <05Jens> I could probably pay, say, 5 UKP/month more or less indefinitely, so an installment plan seems more and more of a Good Thing the more I think about it [11:54] *** Supermous has joined #movie [11:54] *** Aquariate has joined #movie [11:54] *** irc.ie.lspace.org sets mode: +oo Supermous Aquariate [11:54] *** rachel is on IRC [11:54] <05Nonymouse> for perspective's sake, 35 UKP is the minimal weekly rent I'd expect to pay for a grotty room in a grotty shared house, and I'm almost up north [11:54] <05Jens> Thing about voluntary donations: can we recieve them, legally? [11:54] *** Nonymouse has quit IRC [11:54] <05eric> t's going to take any spare cash I've got for a while no matter how I formalise the arrangement [11:55] <05Aquarion> Jens: I don't know, I'll ask the bank [11:55] <05Corinne> why call them donations? why not just "people giving us money because they want to" [11:55] <05Jens> I'm thinking more about the fandom/flying under the radar thing [11:55] <05Aquarion> I think if we classify them as "Contributions" [11:55] <05Joy> Mouse: Nic earns $10 per hour -- about 3 quid. [11:55] <05Supermous> at 5ukp pw [11:55] <05Supermous> that's less than the minimum wage here. [11:55] <05Joy> that's average [11:56] <05Corinne> and 30 quid for two weeks rent of a shop, is that average there? [11:56] <05Jens> .ukia is considered one of the world's most expensive places [11:56] <05Corinne> seems most things are a lot cheaper in australia :) [11:56] <05Supermous> NZ! [11:56] <05Corinne> thingy [11:56] <05Corinne> (sorry) [11:56] <05Jens> ...after Sweden, but a 25% drop in the value of the SEK may have reshuffled [11:56] <05Joy> no, it's a small shop in a rural village, but it's not *hellishly* cheap [11:56] <05Supermous> and norway? [11:56] <05Jens> dunno 'bout norway [11:57] <05Corinne> lets move to australia! [11:57] <05Jens> I do know that they've started buying booze in .se, as opposed to the other way around previously. [11:57] <05Joy> I'm just pointing out that UK 'cheap' is a whole other thing to NZ 'cheap' [11:57] *** Nanny_Ogg has joined #movie [11:57] <05lonecat> Guests are arriving :-( [11:57] <05Aquarion> 1.4% + 30c per transaction [11:57] <05Jens> If we move to mars, the Men in Thin Watches can't get at us and we can take as many contributions as we like [11:57] *** Jens sets mode: +o Nanny_Ogg [11:57] <05Nanny_Ogg> Sorry - did I miss much there? [11:57] <05lonecat> I'm required to be social [11:57] <05lonecat> Bye *hugs* [11:57] <05Nanny_Ogg> Bye, Susan [11:57] <05Jens> Sarah: no, we were off topic [11:57] <05Joy> imagine in real terms you were paying 75 quid for your membership, and you've got it. [11:58] <05Aquariate> Bye lonecat *hugs* [11:58] *** Aquariate has quit IRC (Leaving) [11:58] <05Nanny_Ogg> Jens: Damn, that's always the interesting bit. ;-) [11:58] <05lonecat> :-/ [11:58] <05Joy> bye Susan *hug* [11:58] <05Supermous> bye lonecat [11:58] <05Jens> Sarah: there are always logs... [11:58] <05eric> bye susan [11:58] <05Jens> bye lc [11:58] *** lonecat has quit IRC (Everything you know is wrong) [11:59] <05Supermous> Joy: to be brutal, there are a lot more of us in the UK, and the film is being made with UK expenses [11:59] <05Jens> Anyway... I contend that contributions run a serious risk of being classified as taking money for the production rather than the T-shirts, i.e. deep dung [11:59] <05Supermous> if it were being made at NZ prices, then... but it isn't [11:59] <05Aquarion> I propose #20 for membership, plus paypal donations as desired, Payable in monthly bits of #5 if that is what is desired. [12:00] <05Corinne> what is paypal? [12:00] <05Aquarion> Jens: You have a point [12:00] <05Supermous> where's our lawyer when we need one [12:00] <05Corinne> > VHS wasn' anything to do with me :) [12:00] <05Corinne> [11:24] VHS [12:00] <05Aquarion> Corinne: Definition or Rates? [12:00] <05Corinne> oops [12:00] <05Corinne> definition [12:01] <05hippo> don't see a problem : lots of memberships can be payed in installments [12:01] <05Corinne> sm: http://afpmovie.orcon.net.nz/legal.html [12:01] <05Aquarion> It's an online payment system, Basically a method by which we can accept credit-card payments. [12:01] <05hippo> surely the definition of membership is where you want the legal eye [12:01] <05Supermous> ah, there. ta :0) [12:01] <05Jens> hippo: installments aren't a problem. Unbounded payments might be. [12:01] <05Aquarion> Hippo: Yes, The Membership isn't a problem, but accepting donations could be, [12:02] <05Corinne> look, if certain people want to pay more, then we offer them stuff in return. even if it's just a bit of paper saying "I wus here" [12:02] <05eric> I don't see a problem with donations [12:02] <05hippo> *nod* [12:02] <05Aquarion> Unless we sell stickers at #5 ish, [12:02] <05Jens> aq: Maestro/Cirrus? [12:02] <05Aquarion> Jens: Expensive to set up. [12:02] <05Jens> Thought so. [12:02] <05Supermous> aq: I think extra good buyer tokens are a good idea [12:02] <05Aquarion> Or do you mean "Does paypal support..." [12:02] <05eric> we aren't charging for the movie...which is where the problem would be...charging extra for nothing is fine [12:03] <05Aquarion> I think... I think we should insure it's safe before we do it. [12:03] <05Jens> aq: I mean exactly that [12:03] <05Jens> If you knew offhand... [12:03] <05Aquarion> Which reminds me, Have we reopened the dialog with pTerry? [12:03] <05Joy> You could run a monthly 'newsletter' for which people paid. [12:03] <05Corinne> what should we tell him? [12:03] <05eric> we should aim to do so face to face after buying him a beer or two [12:04] <05Aquarion> Corinne: We are now a Legal Entity [12:04] <05Jens> But selling useless widgets at high costs seems safe [12:04] <05Supermous> will a low weekly sum cost more to administer than it wouldmake from being able to increase the emmbership fee? would it be cheaper to have a significantly lower memebership fee considering the number of Cs and Ds in our target pool? [12:04] <05Corinne> eric: no. ok. just. no. [12:04] <05Corinne> if you do that I personally will disassociate myself from this project. it won't be a great loss, but hey. [12:04] <05eric> OK [12:04] <05Supermous> sigificanlty lower fee for unemployed/students, sorry [12:06] <05Jens> I like the way we've got a page titled "Legal advice" stating that it "is not to be taken as legal advice" [12:06] <05Supermous> now I'm wondering if terry ever did LRP: if every time he wandered anywhere near and audition or other thing we had our hands up (indicating 'I'm not really here') would he fget the reference? [12:07] <05Corinne> all legal services are bound to be hypocritical :) [12:07] <05Aquarion> Because if we start selling T-Shirts and then Terry turns around at CCDE and says "Well, that's it, that was too public, sod off. Now." we are in trouble. *lapse in logging* [12:09] <05eric> two [12:09] *** evil_thom is now known as thom [12:10] <05thom> three? [12:10] *** Corinne has quit IRC (Ping timeout for Corinne[ppp-1-71.5800-8.access.uk.worldonline.com]) [12:10] <05Nanny_Ogg> Eric: Specify - do you mean two prices for different income categories, or for different amounts of stuff in return, or both? [12:10] <05eric> Jens...nope...that is a question of whether we have to do something else to allow contributions...it's irrelevant to membership price [12:11] *** Jens sets mode: +o thom [12:11] <05eric> Sarah...stage one is whether different prices is a problem or not [12:11] <05Jens> Is that a voting matter? [12:11] <05eric> does anyone think it's a bad idea? [12:11] <05Nanny_Ogg> I'm sure there must be _some_ way we can manage contributions legally. I mean, if I choose to give some money to Aq, and he then chooses to give a coincidentally identical amount of money to eric, who coincidentally decides to spend it on film & stuff, that strikes me as being hard to pin down as illegal anywhere. [12:11] <05Nanny_Ogg> I vote for different prices. [12:12] <05Supermous> different, but set the lwoer one at 'reasonable' and the higher one at 'a bit much' [12:12] <05eric> looks like different prices is passed nem con [12:12] <05Jens> Different prices in what sense? As in discounts for those who can't afford more, or as in extra features? [12:12] <05Kincaid> brb [12:12] *** Kincaid has quit IRC (I Quit) [12:13] <05eric> so...we now have two separate issues...a low income discount...and optional extras [12:13] <05thom> we can't do extra features. if we start giving more stuff for more money, what's the point in the higher rates? [12:13] <05thom> we're just destroying our all-important profit. [12:13] <05thom> and profit makes BUDGET. [12:13] <05eric> the first requires no extra discussion to approve the principle [12:13] *** Kincaid has joined #movie [12:13] <05Jens> OK... yea to low income discount [12:13] <05Nanny_Ogg> Thom: True - it'll only work if the extra charge for extra stuff is more than the extra stuff will actually cost us. [12:14] *** Jens sets mode: +o Kincaid [12:14] <05Kincaid> re [12:14] <05eric> so...do we set a low income discount? [12:14] <05Nanny_Ogg> Which is not impossible in theory, but in practice might be difficult. [12:14] <05Nanny_Ogg> Eric: Strikes me as a good idea. [12:14] <05Aquarion> Yes, then we define Low Income. [12:14] <05Joy> thom: "extras" could be a monthly newsletter which only went out to higher payers. I'll even write and distribute it for you [12:14] <05thom> hell, i'd write it, too. [12:15] <05eric> my only objection to a low income discount is complexity of administration [12:15] <05Jens> ...and so would my wife? [12:15] <05Aquarion> eric: Not really. No more complicated than it is already. [12:15] <05thom> yes, gratis extras that literally are gratis (ie. to us as well as them) would be fine, if a little unrewarding. [12:15] <05eric> Aq...we don't...if we do then people will simply cheat...best use self definition [12:15] <05Joy> don't make it "low income" make it Standard and Premium membership [12:15] <05thom> yes! [12:15] <05thom> perfect [12:16] <05Supermous> :0) [12:16] <05thom> or "indian" and "african" [12:16] <05Aquarion> Bareing in mind that with T-Shirts, Sizes it's pretty bloody complicated already. [12:16] <05Joy> indeed [12:16] <05eric> Indian and African is good [12:16] <05hippo> I like [12:16] <05Supermous> no it isn't [12:16] <05Joy> why? [12:16] <05Aquarion> Sorry? [12:16] <05Jens> Because it sounds like some sort of racist joke? [12:16] <05Nanny_Ogg> Aq: We could just break it down to student/unemployed vs. employed. Main problem is that this would be hard on people with very low income jobs. [12:17] <05eric> then we advise everyone that paying less for your membership means more work fundraising elsewhere [12:17] <05Aquarion> I'm not objecting to having a Premium type membership [12:17] <05Jens> If we were going to require some sort of proof of low income, it _would_ be more complicated [12:17] *** Nonymouse has joined #movie [12:17] <05Nonymouse> re sorry [12:17] <05thom> yes... "fax us your benefit status" [12:18] *** Jens sets mode: +o Nonymouse [12:18] <05Nonymouse> anyway, re indian and african memberships [12:18] <05Nonymouse> bad idea [12:18] <05Nonymouse> IMNSHRO [12:18] <05Joy> why? [12:18] <05eric> best bet is a reminder of what is at stake...if everyone gets standard membership there may be no film or a shoddy film [12:18] <05Nonymouse> well, because you have two different memberships [12:18] <05Joy> yes, and? [12:19] <05eric> I don't like it is there is any actual difference in the basic membership... [12:19] <05Nonymouse> one of which costs more than the other - standard and premium, or base and worthy, or shoddy and better [12:19] *** Supermous has quit IRC (Ping timeout for Supermous[m944-mp1-cvx1c.not.ntl.com]) [12:19] <05eric> which is why I think extra features of membership for extra money should be a separate issue [12:19] <05Jens> Or strapped vs. affluent [12:20] <05Nonymouse> so then apply 'ethnic' labels and the RRB will get twitchy [12:20] <05Aquarion> Okay. [12:20] <05Aquarion> Blue Elephants and Pink Elephants? [12:20] <05Nanny_Ogg> Eric: So we'd have to put people on the honour system for paying more. [12:20] <05eric> they aren't ethnic labels...they are types of Elephant [12:20] <05Joy> that's how I read it [12:20] <05hippo> if you want use Noddy and Big Ears [12:20] <05Joy> big ears or not [12:21] <05eric> Sarah...we do nothing for people paying more except we make a better movie [12:21] <05Aquarion> eric: They are also ethnic labels, and I've had enough of being accused of racism this year. [12:21] <05Jens> So. Standard & premium membership; t-shirt and video (Ł14ish) for standard. a) anything (cheap) extra for premium? b) what price points? [12:21] <05Nonymouse> you know that and I know that but the RRB won't knwo that and it only takes one complaint to bring us above the radar [12:21] <05eric> ...for everyone [12:21] <05Jens> May I suggest a vote on a? [12:21] <05thom> african elephants are way bigger than indian. fact of life. i mean.. sheesh, what do we call them? continental and subcontinental? [12:21] <05Aquarion> Okay, Extras for Premium Membership? [12:22] <05Jens> thom: do you want to spend time defending misinterpretable names, or making a film? [12:22] <05eric> I'm against a membership system that gives people on low incomes less [12:22] <05Joy> A newsletter distributed by e-mail [12:22] <05Jens> Joy: do we want to cut people off from information? [12:22] <05thom> jens: well, given the choice, the latter, but... [12:22] <05eric> I think witrh afp we can largely rely on people's conscience [12:22] <05Joy> no, this would be extras -- anecdotes stuff like that [12:23] <05Jens> I second/third eric [12:23] <05eric> as long as we are making at least Ł5 on the low income membership [12:23] <05Nonymouse> state a standard price which is at premium rate and a with-discount 'what we actually need to make the film' rate [12:23] <05Nanny_Ogg> I think it's worth trying. Hell, we wouldn't be on afp if we didn't love Pterry's work for its own sake. [12:24] <05Aquarion> #20 low, #30 high? [12:24] <05Nanny_Ogg> Sorry, that last comment was meant to apply to the `honour system' of asking for more money. [12:24] <05eric> we can always sell a second t-shirt to peeps for Ł15 [12:24] <05Aquarion> We can sell T-Shirts also, Yes. [12:24] <05thom> mouse: the standard rate is "what we need to make the film" the discount is us losing cash.. [12:24] <05Jens> Ł30 normal, Ł20 discount? [12:24] <05Nonymouse> thom: only if we set it that way and we'd be daft to [12:24] <05Aquarion> Okay, So who agrees with me an jens? [12:24] <05Joy> no discount you have to prove [12:25] <05Nanny_Ogg> Eric: True. As long as `1000 Elephants' doesn't count as a copyright phrase, in which case we'll be digging ourselves in deeper. [12:25] <05eric> standard rate would be Ł25...ergo Ł20 low income Ł30 the rest [12:25] <05Joy> 30/20 sounds about right [12:25] <05Nonymouse> I think 20ukp is too low [12:25] <05Aquarion> Yes or No. Binary voting system: Go! [12:25] <05Jens> No, a discount which you're a complete bastard for taking if you don't really need it [12:25] <05Jens> Yes! [12:25] <05Nonymouse> hang on, we;re voting on fifteen different things here [12:25] <05thom> stop! [12:25] <05thom> okay. [12:25] <05Jens> continue? [12:25] <05thom> right. what are we voting for? [12:25] <05eric> brb coffee drought [12:26] <05Nonymouse> first: we can charge more if we agree an instalment plan, whichchanges the rate [12:26] <05Aquarion> Right. Point of Vote: #20 for discount #30 for normal. [12:26] <05Jens> Whether 30/20 are good price points [12:26] <05Jens> mouse: good point [12:26] <05Nonymouse> but first we have to know if an installment plan is worth the administration and no one has said yes or no yet [12:26] <05Aquarion> Nonymouse: Installment plans are a given. [12:26] <05thom> first we need to do as mouse says and vote on whether we have a discount or not. [12:26] <05Nonymouse> ? [12:26] <05Aquarion> And yes, Installment plans are *not* repeat *not* a problem. [12:26] <05thom> okay, misread that. [12:26] <05Nonymouse> wasn't waht I was saying :0) [12:26] <05Nonymouse> okay [12:26] <05eric> discount yep [12:26] <05Nonymouse> I didn't know installment was a given [12:27] <05Nonymouse> I think 20 ukp is too low [12:27] <05Jens> OK. There seems to be concordance on the discount thing, and Aq would be the only one with a reason to say no to installments [12:27] <05Aquarion> I mentioned it earlier, but it kind of got lost. [12:27] <05Nanny_Ogg> I vote for the two pay rates, regardless of whether we call them discounts or pink/blue elephants or what. [12:27] <05eric> sm...installment plans are largely a matter of good programming I would assume [12:27] <05Nonymouse> 25 UKp seems more reasonable in that case, yes even for low incomes [12:27] <05Nonymouse> well, uk rate low incomes [12:27] <05thom> okay so - installments. we all agree on that at least? [12:28] <05Aquarion> Yes. [12:28] <05eric> yep [12:28] <05hippo> yes [12:28] <05Jens> mouse: remember that for the rest of the world, uk "reasonable" is "expensive" [12:28] <05Jens> yes [12:28] <05thom> (yes) [12:28] <05eric> passed [12:28] <05Jens> anyone against, speak now or forever hold your peas, etc [12:28] <05Kincaid> yes to installments [12:29] <05Joy> yes [12:29] <05Nonymouse> Jens: i know, and I'm being jingoistic and (parochial?) because the expenses are UK expenses and the biggest fan (and therefore membership) base is also here [12:29] <05Aquarion> Okay, Discount price points. Suggestions: [12:29] *** Nonymouse is now known as Supermous [12:29] <05Jens> Have we actually passed twin price points? [12:30] <05eric> I propose Ł25-Ł35 [12:30] <05Aquarion> Yes, we did that, because nobody disagreed. [12:30] <05thom> to confirm: everyone happy with two rates? [12:30] <05Aquarion> Objections to Eric's suggestion? [12:30] <05Aquarion> Okay, Thom's first. [12:30] <05eric> thom...yep [12:30] <05Kincaid> yep [12:30] <05Aquarion> Yes. [12:30] <05hippo> yes to two rates [12:30] <05Jens> yes [12:31] <05Aquarion> Okay, Passed. [12:31] <05Aquarion> Objections to Eric's suggestion of 25/35? [12:31] <05thom> no objection.. i know we need buttloads of cash. [12:31] <05Jens> no objection [12:31] <05hippo> none [12:31] <05Joy> *shrug* [12:31] <05Kincaid> no objections [12:32] <05Supermous> yep [12:32] <05Supermous> sorry joy [12:32] <05Nanny_Ogg> No objection [12:32] <05Supermous> no objection [12:32] <05Aquarion> Passed also. [12:33] <05thom> wow. we actually made some decisions. [12:33] <05Aquarion> Any more ideas for Budget raising? [12:33] <05Kincaid> bank robbery [12:33] <05thom> small business loan for the 1kec? [12:33] <05Aquarion> Kincaid: Noted. [12:33] <05Kincaid> :-) [12:33] <05Aquarion> thom: We arn't a business [12:34] <05Aquarion> We don't even have overdraft, let alone facility for loans :) [12:34] <05thom> then i go with kincaid suggestion. [12:34] <05eric> email people askingthem to phone our premium rate phone line with a recording of an engaged tone? [12:34] <05Joy> arts council grant [12:34] <05Jens> One more decision: any extras for standard vs. discount membership? Proposal: no [12:34] <05Supermous> joy: good one [12:35] <05thom> jens: agreed, reluctantly. [12:35] <05Supermous> agreed [12:35] <05Aquarion> Arts Council Grant is probably under the heading of Public :( [12:35] <05Aquarion> Also agreed. [12:35] <05thom> bfi funding book.. must get hold of that again, it had a lot in the way of "eccentric millionaire" grants. [12:35] <05eric> unfortunately arts council grants are only available for professional stuff [12:36] <05Aquarion> More votes for Jen's suggestion? [12:36] <05eric> Jens...agreed enthusiastically... [12:36] <05Joy> might be possible to get a similar grant for 'educational purposes' [12:36] <05eric> ...it's a strange and quirky and VERY afp idea [12:36] <05Nanny_Ogg> Jens: OK, I'll go with that.... [12:36] <05Aquarion> Okay Passed. [12:36] <05eric> do you want nothing for something? :) [12:37] <05Aquarion> Er, remind me to tell you what I wrote as the club charter sometime :) [12:37] <05Jens> This seems like a good time [12:37] <05Aquarion> I'll have to dig it out, [12:37] <05thom> thing is, 25 squids is the membership rate we set at the beginning. to have an optional 35 squid membership is nice if people take it up, but 25 will do just fine :) [12:38] <05Supermous> grant now for an agreement later to do a 'how to make a film' educational tape/book? [12:38] <05Jens> Didn't we set that before knowing what our costs for the membership would be? [12:38] <05Aquarion> It basically means that for a motion to pass it needs proposing, seconding, and at least four more votes in favour than against. [12:38] <05Supermous> [12:38] <05Jens> mouse: I suspect we'd have trouble fulfilling the obligation [12:38] <05thom> mouse: we ought to be able to get something out of this that isn't pterry's property... [12:38] <05Joy> There will actually be 'training and education' involved in *doing* the project [12:38] <05Supermous> true [12:38] <05Jens> aq: hmm, maybe we should consider following that some time [12:39] <05Joy> A soundtrack, if nothing else. [12:39] <05Aquarion> Jens: We did. I didn't actually count it as passed until we did :) [12:40] <05Aquarion> We can't get m/any grants unless we declare the film as a proper production, I don't think. [12:41] <05eric> Aq...fizzackly [12:41] <05Jens> Hmm... is this Budget, or AOB? [12:41] <05Aquarion> This is still budget. [12:41] <05eric> the deal is this is fan activity... [12:41] <05eric> ...that goes for fundraising too I would guess [12:42] <05Jens> YM budget again [12:42] *** Jens changes topic to 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: [1) status reports] [2) CCDE] *3) budget* [4) memberships] 5) AOB 6) insert <20p> ref here' [12:43] <05thom> the film *is* a proper production. for certain values of "proper".. [12:43] <05Supermous> does this mean that no one knows whether we can go ound CCDE with a bucket? [12:43] <05Aquarion> We can't [12:43] <05Aquarion> You have to be a registered charity to do collections like that. [12:44] <05Aquarion> Okay, Any more budget suggestions, Or are we into AOB? [12:44] <05Jens> Of course, sm could illegaly beg and claim she's going to use the proceeds on buying extra memberships.... [12:44] * Supermous isn't doing nuffin illegal no more [12:44] <05Supermous> um... probably... [12:45] <05Supermous> actually I have this game I got from underdogs... [12:45] <05Supermous> ahem [12:45] <05Jens> OK... anyone got any AOB [12:45] <05Jens> ? [12:45] <05Aquarion> Any Other Business? [12:45] <05Aquarion> I have to go, I'm being moaned at :-( [12:45] <05Joy> Did the aria go up on the site? [12:46] <05Joy> bye Nick [12:46] <05Aquarion> Aria? [12:46] <05Nanny_Ogg> Bye, Aq [12:46] *** Jens changes topic to 'The Quite Unsurprising Agenda: [1) status reports] [2) CCDE] [3) budget] [4) memberships] *5) AOB* 6) insert <20p> ref here' [12:46] <05Jens> Aria? [12:46] <05Jens> Bye Aq [12:46] <05eric> bye Nick [12:46] <05Joy> 'il porcupino' [12:46] <05thom> i'll ask corinne when she gets back in... i'm not sure.. [12:47] *** Aquarion has left IRC [12:47] *** Aquarion has quit IRC (Need my own flat again...) [12:47] <05Jens> Doesn't look like it [12:47] <05Jens> No OB, then? [12:48] <05thom> okay, i'll see to it. does everyone know the directory i'll be posting script updates to from.. well, now? [12:48] <05Jens> no. [12:48] <05Joy> no [12:48] <05eric> I get my first ever pair of prescription shades next week :) [12:48] <05eric> thats AO but not B [12:48] <05thom> http://sanctuary.orcon.net.nz/neatocool - it's slightly different at the moment, but I'm changing it today. [12:48] <05Nanny_Ogg> How much did they cost you, Eric? [12:49] <05hippo> /me decided a cap was cheaper [12:49] * Jens got his first ever pair of not-cheapo-advertising-shades this week [12:49] <05eric> Sarah...Ł20... [12:49] <05thom> i got my first new pair of specs for 6 years yesterday, if we're on that. [12:49] <05eric> but the ordinary specs that they come "free" with cost over Ł350 [12:50] <05eric> I'm now officially both short and long sighted [12:50] <05Jens> thom: by "slightly different", did you mean 404? [12:50] <05eric> and astigmatic come to that [12:50] <05thom> jens: yes. it's "neato%20cool" atm. [12:50] <05Jens> eric: YAmy momAICMŁ5 [12:50] <05Jens> ahh [12:50] <05Kincaid> right, we done? [12:50] <05thom> but i don't like that url, see? [12:50] <05Jens> I thought you were referring to the content [12:50] <05Kincaid> I need breakfast :-) [12:50] <05Jens> kinc: looks like it [12:51] *** Jens changes topic to 'Meeting over; minutes (gasp) in limbo' [12:51] *** Kincaid has quit IRC (Seeya later) [12:51] <05thom> jens: there is a new scene to go up, actually, but.. [12:51] <05Supermous> http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/figlover/index_fi.shtml [12:52] <05Jens> BTW, does aq have a reliable non-aquarionics address, what wityh his hosting problems? [12:53] <05hippo> mouse : are you an R5 listener ? :) [12:53] <05Supermous> no [12:54] <05Supermous> well, not deliberately [12:54] <05eric> OK...I better run along [12:54] <05eric> bye all [12:54] <05Supermous> sometimes they have late-night discussions which can be of quiet ineterst but I'm no sports fan [12:54] <05Supermous> bye eric [12:54] <05thom> bye eric [12:54] *** eric has quit IRC (Leaving) [12:54] <05Supermous> I'm off to #afp, bye [12:55] <05thom> seeya [12:55] *** Supermous has left #movie [12:56] <05thom> well, er. Session Close: Sun Jul 29 12:56:57 2001